To not want my DD to hear about rape and "lick my dick" in the school play ground?

[ChristmasKate]

I can't decide if I'm being precious because DD is in year 6 and and nearly 11.

I over heard DD and her friends giggling today because a boy in their class told DD it's nearly his birthday and he would like DD to lick cereal off his dick.

When I walked round the corner (they were all in my hall) they all told me what I overheard and laughed because they knew what a dick was and thought it was gross.

They then told me another boy had made up a song about another girl in the class being his pet rabbit that the boy wanted to rape.

They asked me what rape meant and I told them they must have miss heard because it didn't make sense, I wasn't prepared to tell 4 of DDs friends and I'm not sure what to say to my 10 year old about rape, we openly talk about sex etc but rape just seems so much more than she needs to know.

AIBU to want to speak to have a quiet word with her teacher, it feels so wrong.

Sorry need I hope you have found the support your family needs.

I will let DD's teacher know what is being said and then when DD brings it up again I will talk with her.

Thank you all for you replies.

Thank you - we will get there.

If it can happen to u's it can happen to anyone - I did everything by the book - its my view she has given you an opening to have a discussion with her (and about people you know not stranger danger whichis rare) - if anything we have been through can ever help minimise the risk to others I never hesitate to use it.

(sorry if that's worded badly).

What's the head like? I would be tempted to talk to her/ him. I think it's very unpleasant stuff and needs careful thought about how to deal with it in school - both for the children overhearing it, and the boys using such inappropriate language.

Speaking as a teacher, if you decide to speak with the head or teacher about this, you should be listened to and the matter taken seriously. The school should tackle the issue in school and also and also be able to support you with speaking to your own DD about what she has heard.

The school isn't great tbh, hence why DD2 & DD3 are at a different school.
DD1 is a sensible girl and I hope I have been open with her and that is why her and her friends had no issue going from hushed giggles to sharing with me.

I'll let her teacher know as soon as I can and g from there.

need sorry to point you out again but I really do wish you all
Peace and hope, I'm very aware that stranger danger doesn't factor in these situations and I'm sorry.

solid so what do you think she should do?

Ignore it and send the message to these kids that asking girls to suck their cocks is normal?

Ignore it and risk children continuing to see/hear things they should not at home?

While you're at it, tell her that the next time some idiot boy says he wants her to lick his dick, she should stand up for herself and tell him to fuck off. She doesn't have to listen to that shit from some classmate.

Better yet, make sure she has the confidence to look that boy right in the eye and say "don't speak to me like that" and "stop talking to me about that". That kind of talk is NOT just schoolyard chatter, it's a boy trying on what he heard his brother/father/some thug on TV say. Teach your DD not to accept that kind of behaviour and not be a doormat, giggling quietly and letting him think what he said was cute or funny.

And yes, 11 years old is plenty old enough to understand what rape is. No need to scare her, but surely if you taught her when she was a small child that hitting someone was wrong, she's old enough now on the cusp of puberty to understand that forcing sex on someone is also wrong (and that it has a name). You're doing her no favours trying to shield her from this -- how can she stand up to a boy making crude remarks to her if she doesn't even know what he's saying and you won't tell her?

How to deal with it? Well, ensure that DDs have self-esteem and the awareness that they can come and tell their parents/teachers if they feel bullied or distressed. A general backing up of whatever PHSE they are getting at school and making sure they understand that they own their own bodies and can make their own choices, and that sex is supposed to be enjoyable and not something you have to engage in just because someone else is pressuring you to do so.

But a big freakout over what seems to have been in this case some kids having a 'naughty;' conversation and giggling over it would be counterproductive.

God, I heard some horrible stuff at that age in school! My parents didn't know about any of it. remember a boy telling me age 11 that my breasts weren't big enough for the top I was wearing. That was the mildest.

I had a friend who'd had sex aged 10 with a 12-year-old, so it's not beyond their comprehension at this age. And I went to a "good" state school.

Please do talk to the school (it might matter - at mine it wouldn't have - what could they do?) and please do talk to your daughter about rape. If they are laughing about it they need to know exactly what it is and take it seriously. Everyone needs to take it seriously at that age.

Considering how the news on radio and TV often includes the mention of rape, it's not surprising that children pick up on it and might deduce that it means hurt.

I have a son in Y7 and last school year, he asked me lots of questions like what is rape, blowjob, fingering, anal sex... as he picked it up in the playground.

I think that you were right not to tell your daughter's friends what rape means as you don't know how much the friends know about sex and if they are able to cope with such information. I told my son that rape is when you force somebody to have sex and he hasn't mentioned it since.

It could be that the boy has heard the word 'rape' and doesn't understand what it means himself - thus using it in a weird context. And if that's the case, how did he hear the word - it makes me feel even more strongly that you should talk to the teacher because the boy may be at risk here.

Agree it wasn't your place to talk to the other DDs about rape, but you should be broaching this now with yours, I'm afraid

I would have a word with the head teacher. The boy is IMO using phrases and words that are totally inappropriate for some one of his age to know.
As some one else said, there may be reasons why the boy is this aware and
it needs bringing to the attention of some one in the school.

thank you for all the replies, DDs teacher was in a meeting after school today so I have asked to see her on Monday.

DD asked why I want ed to see her and I told her I wanted to let her know what had been said to her and in front of her because it wasn't appropriate, she asked again if rape is a real word and I said I would talk with her after club tonight once her sisters are in bed.

Thanks again.

I work in safeguarding at a middle school (Yr 5-8 inc)

This kind of talk would be reported to me and the children involved would be spoken to, to ensure they didn't have inappropriate for age sexual knowledge (which would obviously lead to further investigation).

Please go and speak to someone at the school - they should have a safeguarding professional, but equally, a teacher will know what to do with the information you give him / her.

so you do want the teacher to totally ignore the behaviour solid....

Unbelievable.

DH works in secondary. He said something to me I've never forgotten about the average age that a child first sees hardcore porn (actual sex, not page 3) is nine.

Jesus wept.

I got a lot of comments like that in my naice private school ("I want to rape you red raw" - note passed to me in classics ... was memorable) but that was in year 9.

I think this conversation with your DD would be a really really great time to talk about consent, and no one, ever, having the right to do anything to/with her, physically or emotionally, that she didn't like. It's a great 'teachable moment' actually - not 'here are the horrors of adult life: # 38: rape' but 'some people do not understand that sex should be a lovely thing that makes both people feel good, and they try to threaten or force people to have sex with them instead of both of them wanting it. These people are very wrong, sex should never be like that, and if anyone ever tries to persuade or force you to do something you're not comfortable with, you are right to say no and tell them to go away, and I will always support you"... I am not being very articulate but I think it's a great chance for you to talk to her about her right to rigorously reinforce her boundaries if she's not feeling giggly about something someone said to her.

Nowt wrong with shocked giggles, best possible reaction, but it's also a great time to explain to your DD that she shouldn't ever feel obligated, and she should value consent and only date people who value consent. Etc blah.

12 year olds at my (again, Naice Private) school were having sex. It's not too soon to talk about consent and happiness and feeling good with your DD.

I would be worried and I would mention it to the school. If this boy is going around putting awful ideas like this in childrens heads then he needs speaking to. It can't be normal where he has got this from surely! I am a mother of a 20 month old and 4 year old so haven't had to deal with this age but this scares the hell out of me.

I would also think that this is an ok age to explain what rape it if you already have open discussions on sex.

This may have been said before on other threads but... Do any of you look at the proleporn mags such as Full House or Take A Break? Do any of you read their coverlines?' Raped by the Babysitter'/'Abused by my Brother and I Had His Baby'/'His Scrotum Exploded' - that's the sort of stuff that's on the covers of these things in great big letters. If you're going to flap about children seeing 'inappropriate' material, bear in mind that it's not necessarily the Evil Internets or R&B music or horror films that they are getting it from when this sort of thing is read by their mothers and left lying around the house...

This is all too common now. When I was that age, I didn't have a clue what any of that stuff meant but even with the best parental controls, any kid can come across the news on google, msn etc. Plus the lovely fb term "fraped". Chances are they don't have a clue what it means but the word and the info is out there and very easy for them to see.

Diabolo I would not make a report to a safeguarding officer for this sort of talk by 11yr olds in a middle school...

Once into double figures and potential puberty, only sustained or extreme use of sexual language would cause concerns that a child was at risk. This would not fit the guidelines I've read, which were based on studies of many children and psychology/social work experience- if some place had over zealous guidelines to "report all sexual talk" I'd just ignore them.

I was around people using far worse language at 10-12, from decent families, that's the way kids speak. Me and my friends would have been shocked to have a senior teacher quiz us on our "sexual knowledge" no matter how sensitively it was done, and I would have pretended not to know anything I was asked more than what had been taught in school and had just picked up the word/phrase from an older child if asked over something as trivial as this. The children I knew at that age who were being sexually abused (4 at least in my school year) weren't using explicit language around the place- they were repressed and unwilling to talk about such things at all, possibly because their abuser had instilled the concept of "secrets".

From what teachers and social workers I know say, and my own reading, 3-8 is when "inappropriate sexual language/behaviour" is commonly a sign of abuse or at least a less than protective environment such as 6 year olds being allowed in the room late night with mum watching true blood/game of thrones/whatever. Beyond that it's disclosures, medical issues (such as children frequently off with stomach pain/itching in genitals), actual sexual behaviour with other children (a way different kettle of fish to a one-liner mentioning it) or more subtle behavioural signs like grades dropping and mood swings that mainly lead to sexual abuse investigations.

The consensus on this thread is that this is not an abuse concern (including from some very strongly pro safeguarding posters) and I'll go with that.

Diabolo I would not make a report to a safeguarding officer for this sort of talk by 11yr olds in a middle school...

Once into double figures and potential puberty, only sustained or extreme use of sexual language would cause concerns that a child was at risk. This would not fit the guidelines I've read, which were based on studies of many children and psychology/social work experience- if some place had over zealous guidelines to "report all sexual talk" I'd just ignore them.

I was around people using far worse language at 10-12, from decent families, that's the way kids speak. Me and my friends would have been shocked to have a senior teacher quiz us on our "sexual knowledge" no matter how sensitively it was done, and I would have pretended not to know anything I was asked more than what had been taught in school and had just picked up the word/phrase from an older child if asked over something as trivial as this. The children I knew at that age who were being sexually abused (4 at least in my school year) weren't using explicit language around the place- they were repressed and unwilling to talk about such things at all, possibly because their abuser had instilled the concept of "secrets".

From what teachers and social workers I know say, and my own reading, 3-8 is when "inappropriate sexual language/behaviour" is commonly a sign of abuse or at least a less than protective environment such as 6 year olds being allowed in the room late night with mum watching true blood/game of thrones/whatever. Beyond that it's disclosures, medical issues (such as children frequently off with stomach pain/itching in genitals), actual sexual behaviour with other children (a way different kettle of fish to a one-liner mentioning it) or more subtle behavioural signs like grades dropping and mood swings that mainly lead to sexual abuse investigations.

The consensus on this thread is that this is not an abuse concern (including from some very strongly pro safeguarding posters) and I'll go with that.

And OP yes I think you should explain simply and clearly what rape is, in the next few years the myths and victim blaming lines will probably be put into their head thick and fast whether by boys at secondary or the insinuations of the media, if they have access to the internet they could easily find some misogynistic discussion about it or even "rape fantasy" porn which they'd be further confused by.

YANBU. Unfortunately at that age all it takes is for a child to hear something taboo and naughty and they will repeat it and soon most of their friends will too.

A child talking about rape is horrible, but they could have picked it up off TV as even soaps have storylines about rape etc. Older brothers and sisters, friends older brothers and sisters, who knows where it came from.

There were similar problems at my son's middle school. It's worth noting that boys that age are usually quite fould and are always talking about disgusting and rude stuff! parents who think DS is different haven't ever overheard what they talk about with their friends Rape is a step too far though.

I meant boys that age are usually quite foul

Did you manage to talk to the teacher, OP?

Extro - I think you misunderstood me - I, as a trained member of staff in a middle school, would speak to the children involved and point out the inappropriateness of it, as an unwanted behaviour issue initially and it would only become a real safeguarding concern if flags were raised during that conversation.

That's what happens where I work and we manage it well. Of course children aged 11 make inappropriate remarks using words like those in the OP - I did not at all in my original reply say that I thought these particular children were being sexually abused - but I would be failing in my duty of care just to ignore it completely.