to think it is terrible to do this to a child?

[Sallyingforth]

I know this is a contentious subject, and the surrounding comments are best ignored. It's just the video content that appalls me.

[livingfortoday]

Recently touched by what I considered an extreme comment about the middle east from a Muslim women I am finding it hard to understand al sorts of related stuff.

But I agree this is child is v young.

The whole things a bloody minefield.

[SundaysGirl]

My own personal standpoint is that I feel uncomfortable with ANY indoctrination for children who are not able to weigh up the evidence and think for themselves and make their own choices.

This is the same thining that led me to refuse to have my child baptised. I will not allow my child to be baptised into a religion that he has no real concept of.

I dislike organised religion and think it is the cause of a lot of suffering in the world.

but thats just my standpoint.

[omfgkillmenow]

the wee lass has learned by rote stuff thats been repeated many times over to her. She cannot UNDERSTAND what it means at that age and the dad is just proud his wee girl can spout it off.

IM not scared by a 2 year old!

[Softlysoftly]

The Jew comment is wrong and it does feel like brainwashing rather than teaching but id hasten to point out not every, in fact I would think not many Muslim children are taught this way.

YABU to call it cruel though she doesn't look scared, upset or anything but happy and proud of herself.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

But how can a child that age even begin to understand "resurrection", when they can barely understand death? Of course it's all brainwashing and indoctrination.

Love it that Xtians still use the egg and that symbol of fecundity, the Easter Bunny.

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

The subtitles are plainly not accurate. To what extent I do not know.

The girl's name is Rahma, not Fatima, and she lives in New York.

Here is another of her videos.

I would treat with some suspicion a transcript that cannot even get her name right.

[MiniMonty]

Question was "Am I being unreasonable" and the answer is emphatically NO.

What a lot of soft soap there is in this thread. Tut tut tut.

It is WRONG to instruct a child that way and any right thinking person would say so. So SAY IT OUT LOUD and don't be scared to do so.

STAND UP STRAIGHT AND SHOUT OUT LOUD when you see something wrong going on. Teaching a child to hate Jews (or anyone) is evil and wrong.

This is ENGLAND and we WON our right to MOAN and COMPLAIN and OBJECT through the bloodshed and death of many many men. DON'T dare to give up that right for the sake of silly or stupid politeness.

Do it today - do it every day. Or end up in a prison of bad politics where men can shout at their daughters and brainwash them into believing (guess what - make the next line up yourself...)

ALL fundamentalists are dangerous. ALL very deeply religious people need a wide berth. ALL the full moons are easily predictable by science and by the way, they all lose their religion in a moment when turn up at A&E...

I feel DEEPLY sorry for that little girl and I sincerely hope that she escapes that brainwashing as she grows.

[nailak]

why?

if you believe in something you teach it to your children. If you believe something is right and wrong that is what you teach your kids, So you teach them to say please and Thank you, to que, to take turns and wait, as this is what you think is best for them to do, is it brainwashing? should they wait to be told what is good and what is bad until they can decide for themselves?

this girl is just learning her culture.

when i was in reception our school had a school assembly and there was princesses in it, I went home and told my mum there was no such thing as brown princesses so i couldnt be a princess. shee took me out of the school after that.

but was it the schools job to teach me about my own culture and religion, about rama and sita and all the indian princesses etc? my mum didnt teach me that stuff and due to that i felt something was missing from my identity.

Even in secondary school it was the same. I couldnt explain anything, I didnt know anything about my self and my culture and my religion etc it made me unsure where i belonged.

[nailak]

if you teach your child what you just said that is a belief btw. you are brainwashing them imo and in many others opinions.

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

"This is ENGLAND and we WON our right to MOAN and COMPLAIN and OBJECT through the bloodshed and death of many many men. DON'T dare to give up that right for the sake of silly or stupid politeness. "

That is New York.

Where they won the right not to listen to moaning English people some centuries ago.

[Startailoforangeandgold]

I had atheism drummed into me just as firmly as any child has their parents faith.

At the tender age of 6 I was very to get my own certificate for religious knowledge. The others were in awe of the visiting Canon, I just answered his questions so he'd piss off and let us do something worth while.

Normally only the whole class got the certificate. (Church in Wales school in the sort of rural area with no other school for 12 miles).

My parents views are imbedded in every bone of my body, I still can not imagine ever believing in God.

My DH does believe in a gentle CofE type God and I've tried a bit to be more open minded with my DDs.

I have failed totally, they know and at the moment agree its a load of rubbish.

Slightly sad, I think her dad's quite kind of faith might have suited DD2.

[EchoBitch]

Skippy,you are a fool,read you history and then tell us that the Americans won the right not to listen to moaning English people.
And while you're at it,remind us of how the Amrericans freed the slaves.
History isn't an easy topic and i am not an historian but i know that rascism isn't an English thing.

It is everywhere.

[NapaCab]

Wow, she's a clever little girl to memorize all of that jargon at only 2 years old! That's impressive. Pity she'll never get to realize her academic potential if she stays in her fundamentalist environment (I'm guessing it's fundamentalist as they've indoctrinated her so young, made a point of videoing it and she's wearing a hijab which isn't actually required until a girl reaches puberty, AFAIK).

Catholicism is the same. We had to learn the catechism ('who made the world? 'God made the world') and recite it by rote at the age of 7 for the visiting bishop in order to make our holy communion.

All religious indoctrination is wrong, whatever the religion.

I'll tell you one thing though, having to learn off that catechism really improved my memory skills at that age. I still have a better memory than agnostic-raised DH to this day

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

The point is that Americans have the right to be racist (assuming that the subtitles are accurate in this respect, even though others are not) and to express those views. We in the UK, not so much.

[EchoBitch]

I might add that i also like the CofE way of things,if we have to have religion in our lives then this would be my preference.
In my life it has been inobtrusive,i was Christened at an early age but i do not believe in God.
I know the songs/hymns and like singing them.
But i am an Atheist.

[EchoBitch]

Americans have the right to be racist?

Am i reading you correctly?

[EchoBitch]

And the so called Americans/English/Spanish/French didn't take America from the Americans in the first place.?
The world is a strange place and we can't turn back the clock.
It was ever thus.

[EchoBitch]

Oh and let's remember how many Scottish names can be found in The Carribean and the rest of the world.

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

Yes?

Freedom of speech and freedom of thought includes the freedom to be racist, sexist, etc.

[Birdsgottafly]

What a lot of soft soap there is in this thread.

No there isn't, what posters (myself included) are pointing out is that most factions of society, indoctrinate their children with some sort of beliefs, some more strongly than others and some as equally damaging as any hatred towards others.

If it wasn't pointed out that all religions insist on fixed believes and the Muslim religion was accussed of being the only one to do this,then that would come close to 'Inciting racial hatred', which is a criminal offence.

You could pick out Youtube video's from the BNP, EDL, attitudes towards women and their right to control their fertility, or any other fundamental opinions, but once again the Muslim religion is the one being used.

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

And on the basis of a translation that is clearly inaccurate.

[Thumbwitch]

this, I think, is worse. :(

[quirrelquarrel]

Reminds me of Frost in May, on a superficial level. The point that indoctrination makes much harder to grasp not only the opportunity to gain a balanced value or historical/whatever range of judgement during its taking place but also the future potential to gain it because it can fuck you up entirely, especially when you try to pull away.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Why? The child plainly cannot understand the placard he holds.

How do you measure "worse", or "good" brainwashing/indoctrinating of infants?

[quirrelquarrel]

It normalises it to such an extent that by the time the child is old enough to make his own judgement, it might and probably will seem quite acceptable to him, as the viewpoint he's always been exposed to and is expected to adopt. That's the point. This is being done for his future.