To think if chocolate is banned from packed lunches..

[stella1w]

Then ice cream should not be on school lunches menu. Day one of reception full day, i send dd1 in with packed lunch with no chocolate or things with chocolate in them, etc etc. So kid gets hummus sandwiches, carrots and cucumber, yoghurt, apple, cheesy biscuits. Understandably, she now wants school dinners (which i can't afford) because they have icecream.
Aibu to expect school to observe same healthy eating rules it imposes on parents?

I understand why the rules are needed but they can be completely nonsensical. So dd is only allowed a 'chocolate covered biscuit' on a Friday, no other day, yet plenty of other dc have innocent smoothies as a snack and the like, calorie for calorie there is no real difference with lots of these foods. Irritating.

I agree, Goldship but unfortunately, they don't have the resources to address each lunchbox/family individually. They just apply a one size fits all rule and beat everyone with the same stick.

What I find most incredulous is what they have designated as healthy/unhealthy.

So at my daughter' school - 1 single Dairy Milk piece (like the sort you get in Heroes boxes) are out (I know this because I fell foul of it and was 'spoken to') where as a Penguin or other biscuit with a chocolate flavoured coating are in (I know this because during my 'speaking to' I sought to clarify the situation and was told I could send Penguins in.

I'd rather give a single piece of Dairy Milk than a Penguin tbh. Both in terms of the quality of the ingredients and the nutritional value. But hey!

Cheers for mellibobs

pudding choices...
iced finger bun
chocolate and oange sponge and custad
oat and lemon cookie
dairy cream sponge
chocolate icecream log
jam tarts
appleciumble and custad
vanilla icecream tub
syrupsponge and custard
jam doughnut

(one per day, 2 week rotation)
what on earth is stopping a child having those instead of the fruit platter?

you have no idea what a child actually eats (lunch box stuff comes back uneaten/half chewed so you know)

too difficult to police as a parent so packed lunches it is.

they do have the omega 3 fish choices but there are 2 other options they could choose from.. again no guarantee they will eat it..

My dds' school doesn't allow packed lunches unless you have an allergy. The other day dds friend (who takes packed lunches) came for tea and i asked her what she'd had for lunch (was going to do sandwiches for tea but would of done something else if she'd had them for dinner) and she said a "greggs" Maybe thats why the head is reluctant to allow more kids onto packed lunch.

Our school had the utterly brilliant idea of a complete ban on chocolate in lunches, UNLESS said chocolate contained a biscuit.

I don't know whose bright idea it was but effectively, you're now allowed to send in a twix but not a milky bar.

Mine have school dinners, I want them to have a pudding, it's a nice thing to have. And I am tired of being policed.

Folkgirl - are you at our school?!!!

They've got to you too then!

But yes, that's the same kind of crazy rule ours has. Today I panicked because I forgot to make flapjacks yesterday and only had a Kitkat to send in with DD's lunch today and it's Wednesday, so not the designated treat day Friday.

But then I remembered that a Kitkat is only a chocolate coated biscuit. So all is well in the world!

Unfortunately there are a lot of parents out there that no matter what preventions the school puts into place will still be feeling them shit when they get home.

In some ways it's good that those children maybe getting their only decent meal at school - in other ways it's a shame they have to make the whole packed lunch thing so strict at some schools. I think it would be much better to have a word with parents of those whose children were eating Haribo for lunch

I know my DS has a good balance. We eat lots of fresh fruit, vegetables, quorn, hummus, everything we eat is wholemeal - pasta, bread & rice, good quality meat etc.

However we also had a pizza takeaway last week with Hagen Dazz ice cream for dessert

DS has treats sometimes but it's all about moderation. If he does ask for sweets he only gets a few or a small amount - so he wouldn't get a whole tube of smarties or a bag of chocolate buttons - he would get 1/3. Luckily he loves yoghurt covered raisins and considers these to be better than sweets.

We have a friend of the family who feeds her children utter crap - always has since they were toddlers - SAHM with plenty of disposable income who feeds them frozen pizza, sloppy Joes, beef pancakes, turkey dinosaurs with chips etc EVERY evening meal. The children are exceptionally fussy even now at aged 6 and 8, only eat junk food - are constantly ill and always have a 'greyish' complexion.

It's such a shame as with a lot of children these eating habits will continue into their adult life as they know nothing else.

My son's preschool has the balance about right on packed lunches I think. (This thread made me look up their policy as he's never had PL there before.)
The rules are:
No nuts
Must contain at least one item of fresh or dried fruit.
Must contain at least one savoury sandwich or wrap
Must contain no more than one cake/chocolate/small packet of sweets/portion of biscuits (which they define as 1 large cookie, 2 standard biscuits or a small pack of mini biscuits.)

To me those seem very fair rules as they encourage healthy eating while still allowing you to give your child a treat.

(The cooked lunches at the preschool follow similar rules, with cakes two or three times a week at one meal, with the option of a piece of fruit if you do not want your child having the cake. Other puddings are fruit and yoghurt with the occasional angel delight as a treat too.)

If a school notices a child consistently has a very unhealthy packed lunch (I mean really bad - justs crisps / sweets) then they should maybe talk to the childs parents & try to educate them. This is better than bringing blanket rules in, that in my mind create "bad foods" which is not a healthy approach to eating. As we have had both anorexic & extremely obese family members, I try really hard to have a level headed approach to food in my household.

'Our school had the utterly brilliant idea of a complete ban on chocolate in lunches, UNLESS said chocolate contained a biscuit.'

Exactly like ours, as well. I thought it was just our school that was odd! Like I said somewhere upthread, 2 squares of dairy milk (as a treat, not an every day occurrence) were not allowed but if he took a Penguin every day that would be absolutely fine. Because it has biscuit in it. It's totally bizarre.

I'm all in favour of schools . Having policies to encourage healthy eating in schools. However, I do think it's hypocritical when they offer sponge puddings, ice cream etc as puddings for school lunches

Hetty That's exactly the situation at ours!

ProPerformer so if the child doesn't like or is intolerent to wheat (or other possible bread/wrap options) then they should be forced to have one? And how is enforcing carbs but making no comments on protein or fat at all healthy?

The most annoying thing to me about this thread though is how people think "biscuits" or "cake" are treats, they're not they're perfectly reasonable parts of a varied and healthy diet, they're generally a good and cheap source of carbohydrates, perfect for an active child.

Like any food, an excess of calories will lead to obesity, but that's a problem of excess not of individual foods.

Yes, no such thing as 'bad food' only 'bad diets'.

On the whole. I do think there are exceptions, but as a general rule!

My 'treat day' reference is from the school.

Grrrr, I hate this one size fits all sort of policy. I'm a teacher, and I firmly believe the majority of parents feed their children healthy packed lunches. Maybe not always 'perfect' but then who does eat perfect balanced meals everyday? Blanket policies like banning ridiculous amounts of items and policing lunch boxes are almost certain to miss sending the message to the parents who need it, and I think will cause unhealthy attitudes to food.

We need to have the confidence to approach parents on an individual basis if needs be and find out the story. I once spoke to a parent about her child's lunch box (only ever had a couple of breadsticks, crisps and 2 Kitkats). Poor child was exhausted every afternoon, and often ill. Turned out the Mum was at her wit's end with her daughter making herself sick if she tried to get her to eat anything else and she didn't know where to go to get help. We got the school nurse to help, and the issue got a lot better.

Another time, a parent got aggressive and told me to mind my own business. Except I thought it was my business if their child had come to school with 11 Rocky Robins for lunch, kept an eye on their lunch box and ultimately referred to the GP because of diet-related health concerns.

As for school dinners, why does it always seem as if there is a healthy choice and an unhealthy choice on the menu? Some children must surely choose the unhealthy option every time? Why can't all the options be healthy, with 'treats' thrown in at random times during the week?

Sorry about the rant climbs down off soapbox

Quite like ProPerformer's preschool's rules, at least they are a bit more positive than can't have this, can't have that...

I send mine with a very basic lunch box.

To look at it, you would think I didn't have a a clue about nutrition.

It contains:

jam sandwich/ham sandwich

crisps

fruit juice

and a penguin!

I do this because I concentrate on Breakfast and supper with my children.

They never finish anything, I'm sick of cleaning up really dirty unfinished , fused to the lid lunchboxes!

The most annoying thing to me about this thread though is how people think "biscuits" or "cake" are treats, they're not they're perfectly reasonable parts of a varied and healthy diet, they're generally a good and cheap source of carbohydrates, perfect for an active child.

But a lot of nutritionists would disagree with you on that. Current thinking is that one biscuit a month is enough. I know, shocking. I think my kids would die sooner of disappointment than obesity

I can also attest to the jaw dropping amount of sugar and chocolate some parents will pack into a lunch box and I swear to god I am so not a food snob.

The rule is about the herd not the individual. It makes it easier for the staff if there is a blanket ban. If they say '1 chocolatey thing' then a member of staff will be tied up policing that instead of their existing responsibilities.

I think this is really tricky. There are children at my dcs school who have literally turned up with nothing but crisps and haribo in their lunchboxes and I think the school has a duty to address this.

However, I have been pretty pissed off that whilst parents have now beenvtold 'no sweetest or chocolate', some teachers often give sweets out in class as rewards for good behaviour/work etc

The rules ProPerformer has posted seem sensible to me. Although you would still get some parents moaning that they are bring dictated to about how to feed their own child. Guidelines work better than rules IMO, especially as they are only aimed at parents that don't have a clue anyway.

Obviously there would be exceptions to the rule for those children with allergies or intolerances, but those would be taken on a case by case basis, I doubt schools are going to complain about a healthy alternative to a sandwich.

dysfunctionalme Nutritionist is of course something you can declare yourself to be, totally unprotected so you can be any snake oil salesman you like under the title, and unfortunately many are. The source of dietary carbohydrate is pretty irrelevant, and is not unhealthy level. Certainly 1 biscuit is enough, you don't need biscuits they don't contribute any essential nutrient that is normal available in hundreds of other foods. But equally neither do they contribute anything poisonous, so there's no need for an upper limit distinct from an upper limit on overal calorific intake.

There is certainly a higher chance of over consumption of biscuits than of swede as a carb source, so yes if you substitute a swede every time you want a biscuit you're unlikely to eat as much - but that doesn't make a biscuit bad and a swede good, they're just carb sources (the swede has a few other things of course, but so does the biscuit potentially, no food in isolation is healthy of course)

I told my DC's school that if they confiscated ANYTHING from my DC's lunchbox, I would report them to Ofsted.

A typical lunchbox : GF pasta salad, with chicken and peas or sweetcorn.
Yoghurt (full fat, no sweeteners)
Juice drink.
2 squares of dark (70%) chocolate.
Portion of fruit (fresh, not dried, on the advice of the dentist)
Block of cheese to finish with.
To be eaten in that order!

The school tried to confiscate the chocolate, and they tried to make my DC's eat their cheese before their fruit. I went nuts, because the cheese after the fruit was advice given by the dentist to protect my DC's weak tooth enamel, as it neutralises the acid from the fruit!

They leave my DC's lunchboxes alone now...

Hmm I don't think it's the carb so much that's the issue as the sugar. Dental issues too.

Anyway, I'm great on the theory and try to cook healthy stuff from scratch for my kids but most days end up giving them something a bit crappy so I'm no health guru