to think it is stupid to tell children they mustn't lie?

[PostBellumBugsy]

First of all, hands up who never lies?

I'm struggling with this at the moment, as DS is autistic spectrum, so I have to explain the rules of social engagement to him, in a way I certainly don't to DD & I don't think most people have to with children who aren't AS.
He can be brutally honest sometimes in a way that is not good. Example: to one of DD's friends "You are really pretty but your hair looks snarly today. You should try brushing it." Gah!!!! Said entirely without malice to one of DD's friends he likes.

He is in most instances horribly honest & black & white & it really pisses people off.

He also lies very badly & stupidly on occasions. We're having a picnic, he wanders off & within my sight throws half his pork pie into the long grass. When he returns I ask him (not in a cross way) why he threw his pork pie away. He immediately says "No, I didn't". Obviously, I don't buy it. He has done this a few times recently about really small stupid things - where there was no reason to lie & it was painfully obvious to anyone (other than him) that he'd be caught out. So rather than just keep telling him off. I thought it was about time to have a chat about truth, evasion, white lies & lies.

Any thoughts? He is nearly 13 btw, if that helps.

of it it gets you beaten up? loathed by your peers?

My parents are in their late 70s, I don't suppose they'll be buying me presents for much longer. It was a mammoth expedition for them to do the shopping that they did & I could see that they were pleased with their choice. I think it would have been really unkind for me to tell them the hard truth, in fact it would probably have made my mum cry. If I get something equally awful for the next few years they are still able to get out and go shopping, then I will continue to them I like their gift.

"What do you all tell your children about snitching? A number of times, over the last 5 or 6 years, there have been school incidents, where something has happened & the teacher has been trying to get to the bottom of it. Most kids seem to twig that snitching on your fellow classmates is a bad idea & so they all stay silent"

Dc's primary schools had a good rule here: you must tell a teacher if somebody is hurt or frightened. So if an innocent child was being accused and was upset, that would be the time to tell. Or if anyone was being bullied. But you avoided all those tedious "miss, miss, Jamie isn't sitting nicely like you said we had to" that can make teaching such a chore.

but cory what about when the teacher says: "Can someone please tell me who spilt the paint pot that has gone all over the floor?" or "Does anyone know where Bobby's snack box has gone?" In both situations, the culprit does not own up that they spilt the paint pot or that they ate Bobby's snack & put the box in the bin - but DS tells the teacher what happened, because he does know & it is the truth!!!!!!

For me, as DS is still only 4, it's easier to start with the straight-out - "don't tell fibs". As he gets older, and his understanding increases, this can be modified - it's like the way chemistry and biology is taught - you get taught basics which are mostly way too dumbed down and therefore inaccurate, and as your understanding increases/improves, this can be finessed into a more accurate picture of how things work.

But, coupled with the "don't tell fibs" he also gets told to be kind to people and to not say things that will upset them. He'll (hopefully!) get the idea that no upsetting people involves either keeping quiet, or bending the truth a little.

Re. snitching - well I don't like constant snitching either - but I don't want DS being one of those children who lets bad things happen to him because he doesn't want to be a dobber. So I'm telling him that if he gets hurt, or he sees someone else getting hurt (physically or otherwise) then it's ok to tell someone - and this is the message he's going to get taught at school as well.

Sorry, realised I whiffled on and on about DS without addressing your problem.

As your DS is on the autistic spectrum, it may be harder for you to get the social side of lying across to him.
Re. dobbing in class though, perhaps you could tell him that he doesn't need to volunteer information, only respond if the teacher asks him directly. (And then consider telling the teacher that IF she asks him directly in open class, you will hold her personally responsible for anything bad that may happen to him as a result of her getting him to tell her what happened in front of the whole class.)