To expect business-class travel when taking a business trip long haul?

[Mexxo]

Have been asked to attend a conference which is a 10 hour flight away. I work for a large international firm. Having said yes I will attend conference, was surprised to be told I am expected to fly economy overnight and get off and go straight into 2-day conference at other end. Then fly back overnight and go straight to work, or take the day off as holiday.

AIBU?

I'm actually surprised how many companies still have business class policies for 4/5 hours plus - my (US based multinational) employer does only economy even for executives and including overnights or round-the-world trips - it's been this way for at least 10 years. It's also a huge part of the reason they keep expense under control and their stock price has doubled in that time. People do try to fly a day early and then work at the hotel or something, but like you I hate the extra time away from the DC so I usually just keep the trip as short as possible. It sucks, and I am getting more contrary about what I'll accept, and this year I've only done about one third of the travel I should have (I'm in sales and my team is spread around, up to a 10 hour flight away).

Fix the trip so that it suits you, within the limited possibilities open to you.

YAB a bit U to expect to travel business class - it is a lot more money. YWNBU to expect to arrive before the conference and to have the day after off.

YANBU.

6 hours for us, all grades.

Can you not just book your own? I let a secretary do it once and she had me land at 5am with a 9am start. :(

Fwiw, I always count "travel time" as paid hours, so if I leave my house at 6am and don't get to the hotel for another 17 hours, that's 17 hours I get paid for.

Normal for intl co is business class for any flight above 4 hours.

Ok, I can see I'm in a teeny minority - but academics do this all the time, and everyone expects them to. I've flown to SanFran from Heathrow, changing at LAX, and presented just before lunch the same day... same to Boston. It's striking that so many of you feel this is a Bit Much. We pampered people do it three or four times a year

If so many people are saying their companies don't have a BC rule for flights over 4 hours then it isn't "normal".

It's entirely up to the company.

increasingly common unfortunately. It shouldn't be allowed when going straight to work from flight. I think it's a false economy because you won't get the best out of the conference or the first day back at work.

We have had cutbacks and no longer fly business. Aside from this it is not acceptable to fly and work as soon as you arrive and the same on the return trip.
As far as I am aware the maximum you can work in a 24 hour is 13 hours ( in Ireland this is the case) and travel is counted as work.
You could ask for business class - and if you got this would you accept these working conditions?
Personally I wouldn't. I would go the day before and not return to the office till the +1 day regardless of the class of travel.
Perhaps with the lateness of the booking you might get business anyway !

My place wouldn't fly us Business Class (the policy changed in the Credit Crunch) but wouldn't bat an eyelid to us warking from home when we get back (or just taking the day off if not busy, and not counting it as holiday).

One day I will learn to type...

Company policy I work for, is anything over 8 hours is business class, if you land back at 7am on Tues you would be expected in work at 8am on weds, but when you arrive back from either any length over night flight or a flight longer than 8 hours you get collected from the airport and driven home (I like that bit) mind you I've only been business once :)

Perhaps with the lateness of the booking you might get business anyway !

Or a route with six stops.

I would never be ready to work after a long overnight flight too hungover

My company counts hours outside your normal commute as time spent in work.

So if I drive to Cork (3 hrs either way) and deliver a course for a day, I update my time clock (flexi hours) with the time taken to deliver the course plus six hours travelling.

Also if I'm starting the course at 9am they put me up in a hotel the night before so that I am fresh (a Holiday Inn usually, nothing special!)

I think you're a little bit BU about economy/business class (in the current climate it's difficult to justify £££ extra) however if they expect you to get the best out of it there should be no issue with putting you up for a night beforehand, and counting the day's travel as a day at work - YANBU about that.

It amazes me about how companies expect employees to burn the candle at both ends when it involves travel yet also expect them to be bright and breezy at work, and give up their sleep ffs!

YAB a bit U to expect to travel business class - it is a lot more money

It balances itself out though. Sometimes I'll fly Easyjet which will cost under £100 return. My choice, the times suit me and it's easier than having to change if it's the only direct flight.

And I've even flown business class because it was cheaper than economy on that particular route.

I'm all for people being given an individual travel budget to stick to and take responsibility for (within corporate guidelines).

This trip seems to be a complete false economy, how much will you actually gain from this conference if you're exhausted? Do you have to make a presentation?

Lots of companies are now revising this but in exchange for recovery time at each end to get over the flight. The exception being if you are flying during a working day and will arrive and have rest time before you start work. If you are being asked to leave work at 5, get on an overnight flight for 10+ hours in economy and then attend a conference then YANBU.
If your travel policy states that everyone flies economy and you have committed yourself and the firm to the cost of the conference then YABU to pull out now. I would make the point though that you don't feel it is acceptable.

Oh, and going straight to work after an overnight flight?

If they made me do that, I'd make sure I fell asleep at my desk where everyone could see, and then would take the rest of the day off as sick leave (well I'd be physically incapable of work due to sleep deprivation!)

(btw I know that plenty of us survive on v little sleep with LO's at home, but if work tried to impinge on my sleep too I'd be incandescent!)

I have gone into work after an overnight flight when I have needed to a few times. I have never made it past 3pm.

sieglinde it might be expected that academics will do this but I don't think it's right! You may be pampered in other ways but this does not equal pampering

I know if I've to do any work/presenting requiring me to be present and alert, travelling overnight and presenting on arrival is a recipe for disaster...

I would have loved to see the boss's face if I had demanded business class when I was regularly sent to the USA for meetings and courses...

YANBU. We have had cutbacks and standard is now premium economy, but only if you can arrive the day before, as (like someone said) hotel is usually cheaper than business. If you are expected to go straight to work, you fly business.

As many of the others have said, I wouldn't expect business for this, but would expect more flexibility on the timing. I certainly wouldn't be going into work the day I arrived!

I recently went to Australia on business, flying economy, and had two nights/one day there before going into work and arrived back Sat evening.

I work for a multi-national and there is no provision (with exception of CEO and CFO presumably) to travel anything but economy.

I can't imagine though that there aren't some H&S regulations around providing at least a day off on your return...

sieglinde I used to work in academia and travelled business class everywhere including long haul to San Fran/ Kuala Lumpur etc. The difference is that all I had to do was turn up, give a talk, sit through a few others and maybe go to a nice speaker piss up dinner that evening.

However, now I work in consultancy it's very different. I have to work 15+ hour days for 3-4 days straight off the plane and usually with jet lag. I find it much more tiring.

In fact, I'm leaving for Bangkok overnight tonight, six weeks pregnant with fatigue and the beginnings of morning sickness... if I wasn't travelling business I wouldn't be going!!

Travel policy is all qualified staff (of which I am one) get business class for long haul

I am not presenting, just attending.

Lots of points well made by other posters...

A key point is what is the objective of you being at this conference and is your manager aware of your objectives - are you there to present, are you there to meet/make specific contacts or are you there as an attendee to listen and network?

Economy travel is pretty normal these days, but there should be allowances for travel. If I'm presenting I would want to be there the day before in enought time to meet organisers and get a run through of the setup and the equipment I'll be using. Even if just attending I would not expect to walk off a flight and into the conference, I would expect a flight that allows me to get some sleep in a hotel. I would travel back overnight but I would expect the next day to be given off as time in lieu for the out of hours travelling there and back.

There is a way of standing up for your rights that shouldn't mark you out as a troublemaker. Present a list of well reasoned arguments why you need the time off, because it will make you more productive in the long run.

An example from another company may help... I've worked for a good company and it would not allow employees to get off a long haul flight and even drive home because of the risk of accidents following flights - you had to use a taxi (paid for) or public transport if appropriate (if it is as easy as a taxi) or check into airport hotel for night and drive next morning.

If they're not prepared to count travel time as work time, then I would not be prepared to go.