To expect 5yr old DS to be able to draw representational pictures?

[TheSeaTheSkyTheSeaTheSky]

Hi all,
I'm probably over reacting about this but it's one of a number of issues with DS1 which make me concerned - although hopefully the answer is simply that 'he's a boy'!
DS1 is a late August birthday so just gone into Yr 1 aged just 5. Many of his friends seem to be reading and writing relatively fluently, drawing clear pictures of recognisable things (police cars, guns, the usual boy stuff) and even writing captions to them. DS1 comes home telling me he can't remember what he's done at school, which to my mind suggests he's messing about and not paying attention. When we play with play dough he just makes a mess instead of actually making 'something' that represents something in the world around him. Today I asked him to draw a picture and he just did scribbles - when I asked him to draw me a house he basically couldn't do it without a lot of help and guidance. He's never been into drawing and colouring and now I'm wondering if i should be 'making' him do it as a kind of homework.
He can copy words and write quite nicely when there's a treat in it for him and his reading is OK but this thing about drawing and making things that look like something is really bothering me. Is it just a boy thing or something more worrying? And if it is just a boy thing when can I expect him to 'get it' and start paying more attention to what's going on around him?
So AIBU to expect him to be able to do this? Is this a sign of something I should be doing something about or am I just an over anxious pushy mother?

No not at all, a normal state primary school - Tbh the ones that are reading and writing fluently are the eldest in the class so just or nearly 6 but as my DS is the youngest in the class I'm a bit worried about whether they are ridiculously advanced or if he is behind. I know he'll catch up but worry about it a lot, him being a late August birthday is my Achilles heel. And it totally perplexes me that he just doesn't seem to 'get' how to represent something in a drawing or model or anything.

Don't worry too much about him not remembering what he's done at school. My daughter is all grown up and done with school now and has a good job. 15 years of 'dunno', 'nothing' and 'can't remember' don't seem to have held her back.

My just five year old just started school last week. He can neither read or write, and I'm not sure if he can draw a house, I'd guess not though. Luckily here we don't expect them to read and write yet, schools in the UK seem to push little kids unreasonably hard in my opinion. It doesn't pay off later, so I don't know why they expect so much so young.
No doubt yours and mine will be able to draw a house soon enough. It doesn't really matter when.

OP ,I hear you ..my mid august born ds1 just started reception ..am all anxious whether he will catch up with his peers who are older ..in all aspects of his schooling .Is it going to be like this ??? but like everyone else has said I wont pressurise him in anyway ..dont want a leonardo da vinci ...just a happy little lad ...

YABU to say it is 'just a boy thing'
are boys allowed to not pay attention, whilst girls must?

BUT...WRT being able to do representational drawings...if he's never been into it, and no ones ever done it with him...how would he know how to?

I also didn't get the 'boy thing'. Why would it be? The fine motor skills issue aside (and I'd like to see some reputable evidence of that) I'm not aware of any reason why girls should be better at / more 'drawn' to drawing.

You do sound a bit as though you are pressuring him, to be honest. You think him not being able to remember what he's done at school is 'a sign he's not paying attention'. I think it's a sign he's a child. This is very common with kids I know and I remember doing it myself. You're also thinking that because he doesn't seem keen on drawing you should make him do more of it as homework. Surely that will just make it even less appealing! He is only 5. Relax. As someone said upthread, read to him lots. Plus then he may get a sense of 'representational' art from the pictures in the stories which will later translate into his own drawings.

Also, these kids who are doing full-on artworks complete with captions - are they doing it all by themselves? I bet they're having help with at least some of it.

My SD didn't never touched paints, felt tips, junk modeling or colouring pens for years and I didn't push it as I could see she hated it. When younger my SD also struggled with using sizzors and writing and would only do the most minimal amount of work, although her reading age was advanced and impressive. Only now aged 10, her written work and artistic skills seem to have caught up to her reading skills. She seems to take more pleasure in fine motor activities and being creative. The best advice is not to pressure the drawing and just have lots of fun.

My dd draws beautiful art works complete with captions of her own making (example: a detailed yellow submarine with colourful fish and her with a thought bubble saying 'I wish I was ten'... wtf??). She is 5 and just started year 1. Of course it's possible. I don't help her draw at all, she is already probably better than me and certainly streets ahead of her dad.
But she can't ride a bike without stabilisers or swim without a float yet, so I guess it's just that they concentrate on different things? I wouldn't read too much into it unless you have other concerns.

See, I disagree about being crap at drawing, though I agree with lots of the other advice, and agree that saying 'nothing' is standard boy response to 'what did you do today'.

There's a difference between being capable of making representational drawings that are not terribly good - wobbly motor control or not being able to get it looking quite how you are imagining it - and not being able to draw a drawing at all. I would expect a 5 year old to be able to make a fair attempt at a recognisable person and house. Can he draw people? Children's drawings go through recognisable stages that start with a face with eyes, nose and mouth, then the next stage they add legs to the bottom of the face, then arms sticking out the side of the face, then gradually a body appears as the child's concepts develop, and then more detail is added to the face such as hair, ears etc. I'd expect a 3 year old to develop the first stage face at some point during 'being 3'.

Is your 5 year old able to draw these things, but they are a bit rubbish or wobbly? That would make me monitor his motor control. Doesn't necessarily mean there's a prob, as boys often develop these skills later than girls, but I'd keep a parental eye. If he tries hard and knows what he wants to draw -eg he says 'eyes, eyebrows' but it just doesn't look right or looks like scribbles, again I'd watch that and provide lots of unpressured practice of teh type people have talked about. I'd be more concerned if he has never drawn faces / houses or is unable to do so by concept rather than by motor control. A 5 year old really should have developed pictoral concepts and be able to attempt to represent them.

I have an August born boy who entered Y1 barely reading and writing. I feel very grateful to his school who supported him but didn't push him at all. He came on massively in Y1, and just entered Y2 with average writing and above average reading. I think he just wasn't ready for it in YR. So your ds may well be the same.

Having said that, he is still extremely rubbish at drawing. He had to describe and draw his route to school as homework at the weekend. He gave me a fantastic and accurate description of the route, but had to be helped a lot to produce a barely recognisable drawing. Great labelling though! This is probably genetic, as I think there are girls in his class who can draw better than me.

The vast majority of 5yos "can't remember" what they did at school - I really wouldn't worry about that.

PS. Aged 4 my SD only draw a head, two eyes and a smile when asked to draw herself for her home to school paperwork. She wasn't interested in doing any more. My son on the other hand spent an hour and a half drawing the most detailed full body portrait complete with football outfit, eye lashes, sets of fingers, his feet/shoes actually standing on a football field, polo car, pets etc. Both my kids are equally intelligent but have very different interests. You really mustn't worry.

ilike, funnily I would say that my 6yo ds and 3yo dd are at the same stage in terms of concept when it comes to drawing, although obviously ds's motor skills and pencil control are much better. But to draw a face they need a similar "well, start off with a circle, then draw the eyes, maybe you could add some hair" type thing. Ds seems to be doing well at school and his teacher had no concerns but this is just something he doesn't really seem to "get" easily.

Once I've explained how to draw, eg, a stick person though, he remembers and will draw it in context later on.

Does he actually want to draw a house though?

My children at that age will have co-operated to a point, then just got creative in their own way (which I always encouraged).

DD loves drawing, DS loves role playing and finds any form of putting pen to paper incredibly difficult. It's not because they have stereotypical roles just different personalities.

I think as long as he is progressing well in school, is beginning to read and write with clarity and you have no other issues then don't worry. He probably just isn't that into drawing/being creative with art at the moment. He might make up fabulous games.

Finally, most children say they did nothing at school - I did from being 5 to when I left. I just didn't think what I'd done all day was interesting - now as a parent I understand why my mum wanted to know what I'd done all day!

I can remember virtually everything about a scene. The most I can draw is literally stick people and a basic house, that's it, I just cannot draw
I did all my GCSEs, a levels and have a BA Hons degree. It really doesn't matter.
But if someone was drawing for me I could say "oh a door there, and that window there and the garden had this in it"

My son had zero interest in drawing and colouring until nearly five, then suddenly got into it, to the point where, at 6, it's all he wants to do.
He gets up in the morning and draws until breakfast, draws at school, draws when he gets home.
unsurprisingly, he is now pretty good at it!
Children work hard at things they enjoy, and practice is what makes improvement.
If you enjoy something, you get good at it.
Budding artist though ds is, there are plenty of things he doesn't do that some of his friends excel at, and thats OK. They all get into different things at different times.
I don't see what being a boy has to do with drawing though.
Most boys and girls both have opposable thumbs..

Dn is quite capable of intricate drawings with 1-2 word captions. But as i said above, they often need an explanation before anyone knows what it is!

He's also well able to read his school book to his cousin aka my bump bribery to do homework? Me? but you wouldn't call it fluent by any stretch of a doting Aunty's imagination.

This is after a year of school, so has had a year's head start on WhatYouLookingAt's ds.

pinkandsparklytoo - your ds sounds EXACTLY like my ds...

well mine is a dd and a good bit younger, 3.7 and has these rather strange bursts of drawing activity (a great boat, a whale, a picture of me, a smelly troll), but nothing consistent. They seem to do a lot of coloring at nursery (but this might just be because she can't or won't draw) - I think the concept stuff is probably fine, but her fine motor control isn't good (she uses fist grip, despite my endlessly showing her how I do it, and how she might do it). She says that she doesn't like to draw because it is too hard - which I take to mean that she can't get her pictures to look how she wants them to, so she just scribbles and mucks about instead. A lot of kids her age seem to be able to draw pretty well. She can write a few letters but they are a bit unclear/wobbly/liable to be back to front. Don't think she can use scissors, either

My DS is 4.5 and doesn't yet go in for drawing, writing or reading.

He loves tinkering on the piano though and making up songs. He's got a lovely singing voice.

It doesn't matter if he can't do cliched representational art. It's a good thing to be more original :)

OP, your DS sounds like mine a year ago (he's just started Yr 2)

His writing was big and uncontrolled and he couldn't draw things like a house or face. He also had no interest in this sort of stuff. He didn't - and still doesn't really - remember what he did all day, without lots of prompting. But remembers in precise detail the beach holiday from three years ago and the difference between an iguanadon and a stegasaurus.

The last few months something has really clicked: he'll never win a handwriting prize, but it is legible and a decent size. He showed me a "secret notebook" last night full of Ben 10 characters he had drawn, some from the show and some made up ones. Brilliant.

I think it comes to them in time, just boys do tend to be slower at this (his sister at 2 has better pencil control than he did at 4).

Speak to his teacher you have concerns eg about him not being able to grip a pencil properly, but otherwise I'd put it to one side and worry about something else!

Aaah, I worried like this about DS1. He scribbled for years, nothing remotely recognizable. He could read and write by 5 but even now, at 7, his handwriting is atrocious. I fretted about it and compared him to others constantly.
Then I had DS2. He is almost 3 and can draw a few recognizable things (he drew me a picture of a remote control yesterday, well enough for me to know what it is without asking.) But he has no interest in riding bikes or swimming, and his speech is very hard for most people to understand.
Children are all so different. It's bloody great! :)

My DS was crap at drawing at that age and guess what, he's now 8 years old and he's still crap. He plays a mean jazz improvisation piece at the piano though.

I had 5 children and the one thing I learnt was that each child develops different skills at different stages of their progression and at 5 years old I think it is unreasonable to expect too much tbh

The "I can't remember" response is very normal, school time is not your time it is his....... so he has decided to take control of what he informs you about.