Do children who struggle in higher primary

[olympicblues]

Ever catch up or does the work they miss in primary as a result of doing lower level work mean they are likely to be bottom group through secondary too?

I have a yr5 child who started school average with above average reading and has now spent two years as bottom of bottom group.

I don't see a way through at the moment.

Watching with interest as I have a very average year 6 DS and I can't imagine him writing well enough to secure top grades at the mo. But I don't want him to stop trying and feel like an academic failure either .

I am hoping people will say Iabu and that for many kids it suddenly clicks. My fear is that dc has no motivation. That if they are put in bottom sets at secondary they will stay there as they have no fight left.

The teacher has give up on them, advised a child in same group to get a tutor or they wouldn't get through year five and six otherwise. Told me not to waste my time :(

In my experience I've seen massive changes in students from primary to secondary- set moves up from the bottom set are not uncommon in the first two years, and I've seen students achieve top grades and develop at GCSE level and KS3 after coming in with 'issues' at primary.

I can only speak for English though.

Home support counts for a lot, however. If you support the school, the child will be far more receptive to direction and encouragement from the teacher.

It really depends on what the problem is. Children generally fall behind because of a gap in their knowledge - for example, some children fall behind in English because they don't quite get how to read and answer comprehensions, or because they can't quite get to the next level of writing complexity that's required of them. It's important to know why the gap is there - is it because they have a genuine difficulty in understanding what's being asked of them (difficult to remedy)? Or is it because they we ill/weren't paying attention during some key classes and thus missed a couple of vital steps that now mean they are always behind? Or is it because they've convinced themselves or been convinced by others that they're no good in that subject and so they don't make the effort any more?

For some children falling behind in English can be purely down to physical writing ability - for example I taught one child who had a real way with words but he wrote so incredibly slowly that in any assessed piece he just wrote too little to gain any sort of high level. I badgered that poor child to hurry hurry hurry for months, and he may have wanted to stick the pen in my eyes but it worked - he went up two sublevels in a term, which is good going.

It might be worth asking the teacher for a meeting and asking him/her some indepth questions about what the problem is. The teacher should have a clear idea of where each child is going wrong, and if you know the problem you might be able to help at home by going through exercises with the child, or by hiring a tutor.

Remember though that not all children will get a 5a and expecting a child to achieve something way outside their ability isn't fair. Be realistic about what you expect.

Olympicblues I'm shocked a teacher said that!

Does your child have specific learning needs? Which subjects are they struggling with?

X post olympic, that's terrible, what a horrible thing for that teacher to say. If your DC is genuinely struggling that much then the teacher shouldn't be washing their hands, they should be looking into getting some sort of intervention for them. Don't you give up, just because the teacher has. Teachers with that sort of attitude make me despair they really do.

DD really struggled at primary we do Primary 7 here and I was worried she is in 4th year in high school now and she is doing great not all top sets and she will never be a genius but she manages fine, she did get some learning support though as she has DCD (dyspraxia)

My dd is in yr 6 she struggles with English and maths although her maths did improve in yr 5.
The school have been excellent she gets load of extra support. Her class is a very small one just 18 children.
I do worry about what will happen in high school.

DC1 was fine up to year 2, right on target but had a very bad time at old school in year 3 and missed a lot of work as a result of circumstances, infact the teacher had a combined age group and DC1 did NO year 3 work at all.

Now in a new school since year 4 but basically at the same level of work they were at in year 2 ability wise as has missed so many of the ways of working out.

There probably are some SEN but they are struggling to decide what is down to SEN and what is down to missed work.

DC1 has same teacher they had in year 4 which I would have prefered not to as teacher has spent a frustrated year with them and has given up.

Its Maths and English, spelling and Writing at year 2 level.

Science, history, geography, reading are not a problem.

My son has just started yr 5. He was average at the end of yr 2 (2b) in writing. He was assessed at the end of yr4 as a 2a

I am going through apples and pears (a spelling scheme) at home, and just over the summer holidays he's starting to make real progress in this area. Since the May half term he's also been having extra lessons after school with a TA who works in the school, and the work he's been doing with her is very good and certainly has been helping his confidence.

I will be going in to talk to his new teacher in the next week or so to see what kind of intervention will be available for him (I'm going to try being a pushy parent for once!)

I'd get a tutor in for extra support if you can afford it. If not, try to do it yourself. There's no reason he can't get stronger in the future, but I'd rather deal with it now, because year 7 is overwhelming enough - loads of extra subjects, more teachers, more children and more homework - without having extra difficulties. What are the school doing to help him? Do you feel it's working?

My DS10 is obviously bright when you talk to him but has had issues with school from the word go - cannt spell and appaling writing, did think he was dyslexic as I am and so is DS1. However 6 mths with a fab tutor has made an incredicble diffeance - for some children some 1-2-1 and a 'different' voice can make all the differance - so personally if you can afford a tutor even for a limited period year 6 is the time to do it.

When I was at primary school a new head teacher arrived and decided that the classes would be streamed according to mathematical ability. My parents had encouraged me to ask questions in class if I was remotely confused.

My daft teacher, with no exams/ other evidence used the fact that I "asked questions" to put me in the lower group. More frustrating still was the fact that I was also put in the lower groups for English as they based it all on maths!

It actually sounds even morer crazy when written down. Anyway, I was utterly crushed and the streaming followed us through to high school as first year streaming was decided by our primary teachers. So I had to work really hard to catch up even though the disadvantage had been dictated by one teacher's opinion and nothing that I had done ( my parents wanted proof of my lack of ability and the school couldn't provide it-I only found that out recently).

Not to stealth boast but I did catch up, got straight As was dux and have a medical degree so ya boo sucks to the teachers. I have only posted my results to make you all feel better (not because I still have a chip on my bloody shoulder that I'm the class dunce or anything).

My parents were totally chilled and supportive and made me believe that despite the daft system I would be alright and I was in the end. I hope that this long reply helps OP.

I agree with CailinDana's theory that children usually fall behind due to gaps in their knowledge. There are multiple reasons for this (including, sadly, incompetent teachers) and, IMO, it is harder to identify the gaps than to fill them in, providing you have some spare cash/time to pay a tutor/buy books.

Depends on the interventions in place in any given school. Where I work the penny has just dropped that we should be looking specifically at Year 7's to see who is behind, not just think about looking at Year 10 and who is in danger of not making that illusive C Grade.

I'm of the opinion that not every student is 5 A*-C and it's about time they threw that out of the window as a marker of a schools excellence.

Olympicblue that's terrible that a teacher would say that to you, feel really angry for you.

My daughter is struggling at school and we're very concerned about her dropping behind, her teacher said at the end of year 2 that she was very much borderline whether to give her a 2 grade at all. We do extra work at home to try and help her keep up, she seems to understand what she's doing one day than a week later has completely forgotten.