To consider paying for Ex's train tickets so he can see ds?

[KenLeeeeeee]

This may be long so I can avoid drip feeding...

Ex and I split up when ds was 10 months old. Since then, I have moved away from my home town and am about an hour's train journey/hour and three-quarter's drive from the ex.

Ex has never been reliable at keeping up contact with ds, neither does he pay any child support (not relevant to the contact, but forms part of the bigger picture) as he doesn't have a job and insists that he doesn't qualify for JSA because of his wife's earnings. However, he also says that he can't afford weekly phone calls to ds unless we ring him and because of the travel costs has only seen ds once this year.

A couple of months ago, ds said he wanted to spend his birthday this year with his dad (it's on a Saturday so no worry about needing time off school). He asked his dad, was told this was a great idea and they were looking forward to seeing him. When they spoke again at the weekend, however, ds brought up his birthday again and ex now says that it's possible he won't be able to afford to drive/get the train down here to see him and/or take him back home for the weekend.

This is where I'm torn. On the one hand, ds's birthday isn't 'til early December and I'm sure that must be enough time for ex to save up for train tickets, bearing in mind that if you book in advance and get trains at specific times rather than open returns, it can be as little as £10. Then again, I'm not privy to nor am I interested in his financial comings and goings; if he says he's broke, then he's broke. For ds's sake, a big part of me wants to offer to pay for ex's train tickets each way so ds can still go up to see him for his birthday weekend, but when I asked my mum for advice about this, she was adamant that it's not my place to chase round after ex and make up for his lack of effort and that we should plan a back-up birthday treat for ds in the event that his dad does let him down (which he has done repeatedly for previous visit arrangements).

I really don't know what to do!

I think your suggestion of taking your son down there yourself is a good one, and under your circumstances, is win-win. You spend the day with old friends, your son is almost guaranteed to see his Dad on his birthday and you also get to do a fun train journey.

If that turns out not to be doable, then yes, I would pay for his ticket. But whatever you do, don't discuss it with your son - this really is not a decision for a young child to make.

^Ex has never been reliable at keeping up contact with ds, neither does he pay any child support (not relevant to the contact, but forms part of the bigger picture) as he doesn't have a job and insists that he doesn't qualify for JSA because of his wife's earnings. However, he also says that he can't afford weekly phone calls to ds unless we ring him and because of the travel costs has only seen ds once this year

That just sounds like excuses TBH.

I understand you want your DS to be happy but his dad is taking the piss.

You mentioned him driving? is it him or his wife? if he can afford a car he can pay for his own ticket never mind child support and if its his wifes car then she could pay for his travel expenses.

It just doesnt appear to be a priority for him does it?

3/4 hr drive away and only sees him 2 times a year? that is shit and shows clearly how seriously he takes his parenting responsibilities.

Re phonecalls; I dont know anyone that doesnt have a 'free' call all0wance in their phone contract.

I really do understand that you dont want your DS to be disappointed but I wouldnt prop this man up as a parent any further.

Annoyed for you and your son

Sorry, AmberLeaf, I left out some details there.

Ex doesn't drive, but his wife does. The last couple of times he's been to see ds, it's been either his wife or his parents who've driven and paid the fuel costs (he's been out of work for just over a year). He also doesn't have a contract phone, just PAYG and says he can't afford to put credit on it very often.

I genuinely don't know what to make of his claims about his financial situation, but there's only a certain extent to which it's any of my business. I believe that he has no income himself because the CSA letter I received said he wasn't earning or claiming any benefits. Beyond that, I can only speculate about what his wife earns but it's a whole other debate as to how far she can be expected to pay towards his son.

I do agree that the amount of time he's actually seen ds this year is appalling. Last year I think he saw him four or five times, so that's a huge drop even by his pathetic standards.

Nope. He's a grown man, he just can't be arsed. Prick.

Aah ok id assumed they had a landline for phonecalls and I wasnt sure about the driving part.

So he was working up to a year or so ago?

Was he as useless when he was working?

If so then its really not about finance its about effort or lack of effort.

If I were in your position (I have been in a similarish position as my EX is unemployed now but was 'good' re child support prior to that) I dont think I would buy the ticket or facilitate the contact.

Do what your mum suggest-plan something else for your sons birthday and if his dad wants to organise a ticket he has 3 months to do so. you're right that you can get advance tickets cheaply even up to a few days before travel so its not impossible.

I know you want to protect your son from being hurt by the realisation that his dad doesnt bother but if hes as bad as he sounds that day will come regardless of your efforts.

I'm in a kind of similar position with my ex, although he has always been very good re contact with the children.

I'm moving to another town (50 minutes-ish by car, he drives) and obviously the children are moving with me. Effectively, although he works full time and has a very small amount of rent to pay, he wants me to provide a tanks worth of diesel every month (about £50-ish) so he can travel twice a week. Part of me thinks for the children's happiness, it is worth it, although I can scarce afford to spend an extra £50 a month on a car that I don't drive. Another part of me thinks, well, you smoke and drink more than £50 a month worth of alcohol and fags, so why the bloody hell should I? I might as well be paying to fund his bad habits.

I think as a one off, I would be tempted to offer for the sake of the child involved - assuming you won't be left struggling because of it. I find it odd that he uses lack of money as a reason if he has a wife who works - do they not share finances? Surely she must place some importance on his relationship with his son as well?

I was in a simular situation with my ex where he said that csa was wanting him to pay £6.000 to me for support and £2,000 to them for arrears. I wrote it off in the end as he said he couldn't afford to see his DD. I didn't want to use that as an excuse. She would be expected to phone him but he didn't phone her. He is now out of her life but not cos of this.

How about meeting him half way? Say to him that you will meet him at a certain place. If he doesn't show up you can treat your DS and make the best of it. In a way your DS needs to see what his dad is like and yes if he gets let down he will be upset but he will know you are there for him and love him and tried your best for his request. He seems like a sensible intelligent boy. Another option is maybe don't say that your meeting with his dad just in case he doesn't show up and take him somewhere. He will be non the wiser that way.

if you pay for his ticket chances are he will find another excuse not to come,if he cant pay for a ticket how is he eating? one assumes that he is given that he is clearly alive, sorry to sound harsh but if he can eat then he can find a way to fund seeing his child.

if he were female and being supported by a male partner and he desperatly wanted to go see his child once a fecking year and the partner wouldnt assist him with a approx £10 train ticket we would be up in arms calling said partner a financial abuser and using money to control movements. we would totally understand not paying csa as its not there resonsability but a tenner to see a much loved child once/twice a year would be a very different matter.

however the idea about using it as an oppertunity to visit friends is a very different matter because 1. no doormat behaviour as it suits you to do so. 2. your son will know you tried. 3. no precidence set so no future expectations to continue doing so. 4. you are not coluding with him and enableing his bad behaviour. 5. you get to see friends,6. chances are your son will enjoy the train ride with you with no risk of waiting at your end for a person who wont show if your waiting with him at the other end you will already be there so can find fun stuff to do thats slightly out of the ordanary just incase.

AmberLeaf - tbh he's always been useless at contact unless someone else organised it for him. At the worst, he went 6 months without calling ds once until ex-FIL took it upon himself to ring me and ask if they could come & pick ds up for the weekend. I left that side of things out to avoid influencing anyone's response, if that makes sense. Ds is sadly already very aware that his dad's efforts at contact are lacking and I strongly suspect that being let down over his birthday will be the final nail in the coffin.

CaptainHetty - I can identify with your dilemma. It's not easy, is it! I haven't asked my ex about his financial arrangements with his wife. I know the mortgage on their house is in her name, their car is hers and she pays all the bills as he has no income. It amazes me that she has any respect for him whatsoever, but it isn't really my business. She & I do get on very well (I've known her longer than either of us know the ex) so I could possibly try talking to her about more regular visits for ds.

CantAffordTheOlympics - Sorry to hear you've been through this too. I think meeting him halfway would only work if I asked my DH to drive, and ex asked his wife. It's worth including as an option but I think it's less likely that he'll go for that than if I take ds myself on the train or similar. That's a good point about not telling ds where we're going if I do take him though, just to be on the safe side. I hope that the ex wouldn't dare be a no-show, but you never know!

Thanks to everyone for all the great input. It's been very helpful to get some other perspectives on the situation.

Sorry, socknickingpixie, cross posted there! That was my logic about going up on the train too. Don't worry about sounding harsh though. It's taking all my discipline not to post calling him all the names under the sun!

I'd go for the option where you take him up and make your own plans for while DS is at his dad's. Maybe even plan something nice for the 2 of you to do on the way there so it's a nice birthday day out with you as well as a trip to see his dad.

Whilst I have sympathy and it does sound like he's not putting much effort in - if you moved away then perhaps you should be doing the travelling/foot the bill for contact?

You shouldn't pay. At most do the 'meet somewhere' compromise. Your DS needs his father to make the effort. That's why he keeps giving him these chances. You making up the shortfall doesn't fulfil this desire. But I can see why you're torn.

YABU. Sadly, your son is just not important to his father any more IMO. Throing any amount of money at the problem will not solve his shortcomings.

After reading socknickingpixies 6 point proposal I can see that going up there could work and that you'd get something out of the trip too, also it gives a dual focus for the trip and takes out any worry of his dad not showing up.

Would second Socknickingpixie 6 points about you going by train. I'm sorry OP but his past behavior points to money just being an excuse - he could ask his wife / parents for the train fare if he really wanted. He has 3 months to save - can he really not afford a pound a week ? I wouldn't facilitate him - next time just say "good news, I've arranged to see friends, we are making it a special day by traveling on the train so I will drop off x time and collect X time, book it in your diary". Then he has no excuse, but if something crops up, at least your DS has had a nice day out and you know where you stand. Another thought (don't know what your relationship is like though) what about suggesting his parents also come to see DS on his birthday - that would be even nicer for DS to see his dad and grandparents on his birthday.

Forget it, he's a lost cause. He is beyond vile, and not worth the slightest effort on your part to keep him in your son's life.

UPDATE:

It has now been 4 weeks since we had any contact from that feckless waste of space my Ex, and during the phone call he confirmed to me that he definitely "can't afford" to see ds on his birthday after all. Cowardly swine left it to me to break the news to my sweet boy too.

DS took it well to start with & we talked through some things we could do together instead, but he has now decided that he doesn't want anything more to do with his dad. I'm aware that he may change his mind in the future, but if anyone has any advice in the meantime, it would be much appreciated!

Do I contact the ex to tell him ds doesn't want to know him right now, or just leave it?

I think I would leave it, let the ex come forward when he does. I think that your son is old enough to make this decision for now, what is best for him, and he may decide later. I think you are totally doing the right thing and letting your DS lead.
I dont have children (yet) but have been on the other end. Took me a long time to realise about my dad. Sounds like you have a wonderful and sensible son, pretty sure that is down to you!