to be worried about the way BIL treats his children?

[emeraldgirl1]

The thread title is a bit dramatic-sounding, sorry - no suggestion of anything terrible.
I just worry that he is not at all involved in my 2 nephews and niece's lives. He never (but NEVER) plays with them, on the rare occasions I have seen him 'play' he wanders off with no explanation in the middle of whatever they're doing (even to the extent of wandering off as his toddler son kicked a ball back to him during a 2-min kickabout... expression of confusion on my nephew's face as the ball dribbled nowhere was sad!), he then goes and fiddles about on the computer for ages - not work stuff, just general interest stuff. I have seen him more often than not walk through the door after work and barely acknowledge the kids' presence, let alone say anything to them. He is also a big one for 'shushing' them; I am not saying it is right to let your children dominate at a family meal but he doesn't listen to anything they say at all and shushes them if he wants to hold forth talk, which he invariably does instead.
Is none of my business fundamentally, of course he may be wildly different when I am not there but I see them a LOT and other family members have started to point out the same thing. It's not a new thing either, he has always done it. But it's getting worse and I am v worried about my DSis - she does EVERYTHING in the house, cooking, tidying, bath times etc etc and because of this aspect she also does EVERYTHING play-wise with the children. She is the one who takes them out on bikes at the w/e, plays with them in the garden while BIL dozes indoors etc.
I don't honestly know any other dads like this, and I do know a fair spectrum. I also know that nobody is perfect!! But this seems so extraordinary and it is sad to watch his children trying constantly to get his attention and NEVER getting it. :(
Is this more normal than I think it is?
FWIW he isn't a big stress-head about his job. He has quite normal office hours and they get a lot of support from family members so I just don't think it can be stress-related. I think it's personality related...

I should add - last time I was there he left his baby son to cry while he sat and read newspaper... I guess if they were doing a controlled crying thing this would be ok (?) but they are not... DSIS was busy getting the other two dressed at the time so I ended up being the one (not very effectively!) to soothe baby until DSIS was free again... This can't be fair on her, surely?

The only person who can sort this out is your Dsis and whilst she is unwilling to do that, she is aiding and abeting him his emotional neglect of his children and their general needs.

Unless he is much better with older children and will change once out of the toddler stage.

Birdsgottafly - no, you are right, there's nothing at all I can do, it is up to my sister. She is very very quiet with him and (as far as I can see) has never once suggested he could get off his arse do more. Which is of course up to her, obviously. Hard to witness though, especially when I see my DNephews and niece getting worked up when he ignores them...
True, maybe he will be amazing when they are older. Hadn't thought of that. I know some men in particular do struggle with the baby stage.

This is a really sad situation. The only thing you can do is speak to your sister. I do wonder if she has some self-esteem problems from the past or developed in this relationships through violence (either emotional, physical or financial) that is not seen from the outside. Having not one but three children with such a man is a thing that a person in the right place is not likely to do.

OP, I seriously doubt that he will be amazing when the children are older.

PatronSaint - well, no, I doubt he will get better either, I am just clinging to straws!!
Also yes, she definitely has self-esteem problems, though she is feisty to the point of rudeness with pretty much everyone but him... I think too that she simply has no idea, poss because of these issues, about how other fathers behave. I think she ignores everything she doesn't want to see.
She is a very very difficult person to talk to so I dread the idea of bringing this kind of thing up... she is liable to fly off the handle and I worry that she would tell me I couldn't see her DCs as much.
I don't know if there is much I can do but I am finding it so hard to watch the situation.

I would find it incredibly hard to be with a man who took no interest in his children. My husband needs some work on his husband skills but he is a pretty amazing dad to our children.

I can understand it must be heartbreaking for you to watch especially the dissappointment on the childrens faces when he ignores them. You could try subtly bringing it up with your sister in a conversation and see where the conversation leads xx

Did he want to have children? Did he have no idea about what it would entail? Maybe this is how he was brought up so he knows no different?

Hammy, yes I think this may well be how he was brought up... But I know lots of people who had really shit upbringings (myself included in a v different way) and I think quite often they look around and recognise the limitations of their own childhood and try to make things different... I guess if you weren't unhappy as a kid, though, you might not know there was any other way... I think he may not have known what was involved in having kids but I would have thought he might have cottoned on by now... Guess if he is never confronted though, why would he? In all honesty he is not that interested in anyone but himself, including other adults etc, so he is being consistent in one way at least!!

I'm assuming that you and your sister have the same father? What was he like as a dad? Presumably you've inherited the same expectations of how a father should behave from him?

If your own dad was a crap role model - and your current expectations are formed more by your DP and the other fathers around you - then I think it's going to be tricky to open up a conversation. She would just see it as the difference between your way of doing things and hers.

But if you had a good dad, I think it would be easier to open up a conversation with your sister. You can point out how very different your BIL is to your dad and see if you can get her to explain why she thinks that's OK.

Honestly, in your shoes, I would have to talk to my sister about this. I wouldn't stand by.

Treats, our dad was a crap role model in loads of ways but undeniably a pretty involved father. Not brilliant on emotions but good with his time.

My sister too is utterly incapable re emotions and relationships; she is a great mother though which impresses me and breaks my heart at the same time.

So I am getting the general sense that my instinct is right and this is not 'normal' or good, right...?

I think you need to talk to her too.

It's not normal, I don't think it's acceptable either.

Thanks TeWi

Will think of some way to introduce the topic... Can't bite my tongue forever. Don't want it to turn into a confrontation though.

Sorry to hear that about your dad emerald but it sounds as if there's some positive stuff there you can work with. How about a "Do you remember the time we did this with dad?" kind of conversation and try to move it on to "Doesn't your DH ever want to do that with your kids?"

It might be easier than a direct comparison with your own family life or that of other people you know. It won't come across as smugness about how much better your life is or anything (not saying you are smug, just that that might be how it's perceived)

At the end of the day, the issue is your BIL, not your sister. But if you can get her to open up about the relationship between them, it might switch some lights on for her and encourage her to think about things differently and what changes she COULD make.

Treats that's good advice and certainly a good way in... thank you! I think it is a good idea to try to switch a light on for her. I just think she gets very short-changed and - though I know it is possible to do a great job as a single mum (which she effectively is in most important ways re the kids) it is tough for the kids to have their dad physically there but not at all 'present', if that doesn't sound too lentil-weavy. They are getting short-changed too and fighting for a parent's attention is never fun.