AIBU to not want to pay £1k for a lamp my toddler broke in the doctor's waiting room?

[sanam2010]

Ok so my DH took my 22 month old DD to a doctor for a check-up today. About ten minutes after appointment time, when they had been waiting for 15min, apparently DD reached for the lamp on the magazine table next to them (she was on DH's lap), the lamp fell off the table and broke.

They then said this was a very expensive special lamp worth £1,000 and that we had to pay for a replacement!! Isn't this mad? I don' have any insurance that would cover this.

As much as i regret the damage and wish she hadn't touched anything, first of all if they had kept te appointment time this would not have happened (private practice, not NHS by the way), plus it was a complete accident, not a case of negligence or intentional damage, plus what are they doing putting a £1k lamp on a simple coffee table in the waiting room? And shouldn't their insurance cover this?

What do you guys think is a reasonable agreement i can reach with them? Is it unreasonable not to pay for it?

YADNBU in fact if I were you I would be demanding to know why the lamp was placed where it was, it was clearly a health and safety issue, which I would have expected any DRs surgery to realize it is simple common sense.

They will be covered by public liability and accidental damage insurance so no don't pay anything.........

YANBU. if it was so valuable don't leave it in reach of clients. it could have hurt your child so i don't think they should ask you for any money. should be covered by their insurance.

YANBU

This is an office open I presume to people with disability (both behavioural and things like tourettes and otehr SN that cause spasms), young children, elderly people who may have dementia, people with a MH difficulty....

they are silly to even ask frankly

Oh and Dh is a professional lighting designer

he laughed as well at the siting of such a costly lamp

if it was so valuable don't leave it in reach of clients

The problem is, if you are a commercial premises, you don't have a clear idea of your clientele. You have an idea of your target audience - which in Harley Street is going to be primarily adults.

My dentist also has very expensive artwork and lighting - the place looks like a bar, which is one of the reasons I'm never intimidated by dental appointments.

If my child broke anything there, I'd be mortified. Of course I'd pay for the damage (or rather, my insurance company would). I wouldn't start getting pissy and threatening to report them to HSE - it was MY CHOICE to be present in such an environment. But then I have insurance and they'd take care of it without stress; I can appreciate this is stressful if you haven't.

Attack is often the best defence.

Why would they have such breakable items in the waiting room if they take very small children?

If you start attacking them, they're more likely to go after you - doctors and dentists have more insurance than anybody, including the kind of legal insurance that will make your life a misery for years to come.

You need to take responsibility for your child. Would you expect to get off scott-free if your child broke an item in a shop or a friend's house?

If you can't afford to take responsibility for the damage, do nothing as others have said, in the hope the dentist doesn't escalate the claim. And FGS, get some insurance.

Kensington - since the OP chose this dentist specifically because they said they saw children that young, then I think it's fair to say they could expect to have clients that young on the premises.

I don't see why people should be expected to have insurance in case they break someone else's lamp in someone else's waiting room . It should be on the dentist's insurance, surely.

thread turns bitchy as soon as people find out it wasn't an NHS dentist. Yes OP, what the hell you doing using private dentists for your kids? Why not suffer a shit service (if any) so you don't cause offence.

Kensington -what bollocks, you would only be liable if you acted in an unreasonable/ reckless way eg letting a child do cartwheels etc

And even this wouldn't apply in a friends house because there is no legal relationship therefore no duty of care.

DH can;t work out what sort of light that costs that could be justifiably installed there.

Hell, that top linkd one was a studio lamp; if that costs £1k then imagine what you could get from IKEA to suit this environment!

I've just come across a document from the Family & Parenting Institute entitled "Is It Legal: A Families Guide To The Law" which states:

"If my child injures someone or damages something by accident, am I liable?
There is no cut and dried answer, but legal opinion suggests that a parent would not usually be liable. The court would have to determine whether the child had caused an accident through failing to take ?reasonable care? and so had been negligent. That decision would be partly based on the age and understanding of the child, but it is extremely unlikely that anyone injured or with damaged goods as a result of the child?s negligence would sue the child. The parent is not automatically liable for the child?s negligence and would only be liable if it could be proved that the parent themselves was negligent."

So no - you are not liable - tell them to shove it!

Kensingtonkat, i have private dental insurance through my employer at minimal cost - if I just do two hygiene treatments per year I make the dental insurance premium back.

Extremely useful info on that family law, i am pleased to hear that. But equally important point that dental practices have legal insurance, but I assume that is for the case they get sued, not the reverse?

also alot of people cannot get an NHS dentist and have to go private. i am in the fortunate position of having an excellent NHS one.

1. They'll have insurance, and 2. I doubt the NHS have the funds to spend £1k on lamps, no matter how special. Are you sure it wasn't a joke?

im often a bit hmmm at people who say im not legally liable so bugger off or stuffs ok to do if no law prohibits it, but seriously!!!!!!!!!!!

your even asking the question? im astounded. any company/office/service that especially seeks children as service ussers has to risk asses or risk minimise this includes not putting expensive equipment where a child acting in a perfectly reasonable child way (reaching out for something at that age is not apsolutly not a behaviour issue) would create a problem.

might i surgest these words " are you ever so slightly unhinged? dont be silly if my child behaved badly and caused a problem then i would perhaps concider entering into this discussion but they didnt,so i wont"

you may also want to reconsider your custom as well they sound barking.

fwiw my dc as a nearly toddler on a visit to 10 downing st (not name dropping it is actually relivant and the visit was as a result of a different dc winning a award) broke a clock reaching out over my shoulder que hugely red faced mother and a certain other lady with a nasty rep for being grabby instantly reasuring me saying she never liked it anyway and my lovely little chap was clearly not being naughty just to little to understand about stuff and we wernt to worry at all she was embarrased at my efforts to say we would fund it being fixed told us we were being daft. when we discovered the clock is actually featured in the info book about no10 and is shockingly valuble.

Absolutely don't pay - this is ridiculous. I would change dentists as well, frankly.

Absolutly not. they should not have had such an expensive item

1. in the surgery
2. within easy reach of young fingers

i think l would be telling them l would be contacting health and safety to do an assessment on the buildimng and waiting room..

Do not even consider paying them a penny

You have got to be joking? A 1K lamp in the docs surgery? If not joking then tell them to get stuffed. They have got insurance and plenty more besides!

They're extremely lucky she wasn't hurt. And were incredibly stupid to put the light there at all, if they cater to young children.

Post on Legal for advice on what to do next. Seriously, I can't imagine you should have to pay this. As to people suggesting you pay the excess, if you suggest or agree to that, then you've potentially also admitted liability. So no, I wouldn't.

Post on Legal. And you are not being in any way unreasonable. They shouldn't out fragile, valuable items in smashing distance of small children, particularly when they're likely to be bored and/or frightened. If you broke something at a friends' house because you weren't supervising your child, that would be one thing. But here, you'd have needed eyes in the back of your head.

Also agree that you should insist all contact on this is in writing, btw. Useful if recollections conflict.

How ridiculous, so anywhere that can expect children to be present should not have nice/expensive stuff in it? How about, her dh should not have sat so close to an easily toppled lamp with a young toddler on his lap?

Nope, of course not, no personal responsibility here. Let's blame the dentists for even daring to create an inviting waiting room which is quite essential to relax patients who are very nervous. Of course the practice should correct your daughter's mistake. After all, they have insurance, don't they? Of course they won't have to pay an excess, would they. Their premiums won't go up, will they? These costs won't be passed onto their paying patients when cost are already through the roof.

It has nothing to do with them not keeping the appointment, more that your dh should have been a bit more vigilant to his surroundings & be a tad more careful about where he placed himself.

I know this view won't be popular, but expecting them to correct YOUR daughter's mistake at great cost to them, is incredible.

No personal responsibility anymore.

I think the dentist should take some personal responsibility, too, though. And it is not "quite essential" to spend a grand on a lamp to create a pleasant environment - I'm terrified of the dentist but I seem to be just as capable of coping without the waiting room being kitted out by the Conran Shop.

A waiting room with fragile things on side tables etc is going to have to factor in breakages. That's just how it is in areas of high traffic. To then expect a patient to find a grand is unreasonable. If a child can knock it to the floor that easily then it wasn't placed sensibly. It isn't "personal responsibility" to expect others to pay the price for the thoughtlessness of the practice. If the OP had allowed their DD to race around at will, and something had been knocked from a wall for example, or a fishtank cracked, or something of that nature, then the answer would be different, because they'd have been negligent. This wasn't carelessness or stupidity on their part, and it was forseeable damage on the part of the surgery.

You don't put very expensive items in commercial premises in high traffic areas, when a slight knock could send it flying, and you have young children as regular visitors. Can't see how that is controversial, really.

perfectstorm I didn't say it was essential to buy a 1k lamp, but to create an inviting relaxing environment. How they wish to do that is their concern, and they should be able to furnish it how they like.

After all, if I have an expensive lamp & it was broken by a toddler, I would expect the parents to take at least some responsibility for that. Regardless as to whether I had insurance, I did not break it by placing it there. Same as the dental practice didn't break it by placing it there.