To not give my address to this American hospital and to be fuming over the phonecall I received

[whysogrumpy]

Ok, I will try to be brief but I am actually shaking over the conversation I had on the phone earlier today.

Last year my dh and I went to New York. I was pregnant at the time and I had horrendous 'morning' sickness while there - in fact, after a whole day of being sick dh was advised by a dr on the phone to take me to hospital as I could have been dehyrated. He did so and I was put on a drip as I was dehydtrated and I also had a scan.

We had taken out travel insurance and, as happens in the states, a man in the hospital came and took the details of it before we saw anyone medical. I also had to give my name and address to the triage nurse and when I left my details were verified again.

When we got back we heard nothing further from our insurance company such as being charged an excess but I have never claimed anything on insurance before so don't really know how it works. Also, during the stay and for weeks after I kept bleeding and, as I also have 2 older dc, I haven't had time to ever consider whether I should have heard from the insurance company, and the incident took place last November.

Anyway, today I received a phonecall from the hospital. The woman said that she needed my address as there had been a fault with their computer and they had lost my insurance details and therefore had not been able to claim for the treatment I recieved. I said that I had given them those AND my address (and they had clearly not lost my phone number ) and she repeated that there had been a fault with the computer. I said that my insurance was a travel policy and I didn't know whether I would be able to claim on it nearly a year after the event and she apologised and asked for my address again. I ummed and ahhed a bit and then she snapped, "If you don't give me the details, your name will be given to all American airports and you will never be able to enter the states again!" .

I hung up at this point. There is no way I can pay a huge hospital bill at this point - we have 3 dc including a 3 month old and I am on mat leave. More to the point, why should I - I had adequate insurance and gave them all the details they asked for. I am upset by her threat but highly unlikely to ever afford to go there again anyway - if it does hold weight - does it ?

AIBU?

To be fair, most people on here are agreeing it sounds dodgy. But believing that most adults ought to have a basic knowledge about how insurance policies work is nothing to do with needing to have led a perfect life within the speed limit!

I think it is good you didst give out your address, not a chance I would have.

However, there is a chance that there is a real issue with the hospital and given that it will probably be for thousands you can't really go head in the sand. You need to speak with you insurance company, if you got it through the bank then give them a call and let them know the rough details, they should be able to pull up a file.

If the hospital has not been paid and the insurance won't pay out then they may come after you for payment. I don't know how that works as far as international law goes.

In future you need to be very clear on all details of travel, read the fine print people.

Well, if they contact and bill me I will have to see what the amount is and hope we can pay in installments I suppose .

The reason US medical costs are so high is because of the large number of non-payers. Hard working Americans have to cover these costs, often with insurance premiums in the region of £800 per month for a family of four. It's not victimless. I'm very sorry to hear that but a simple, "Here are the phones to call your insurance company," and, even better, "here is your bill," would have avoided this whole situation. I know people are saying my pregnancy would have invalidated my insurance but they are also saying that it is normal porcedure to be charged and then have to claim it back. Had I been charged I would have paid up and then it would have been my problema nd not 'hard-working Americans' '. I am also hard-working and still feel the hosptial haven't dealt with this well at all.

You say you took the insurance out before you knew you were pregnant, but were treated in hospital for a pregnancy related condition. I bet what has happened is you weren't covered for pregnancy, so when the hospital went to claim they didn't get paid. Hence you are being chased for the debt!

Why, oh why do people not read insurance documents to make sure they are adequately covered? You'd,also, have been aware of the correct procedure to follow had you have read them.

DS2 broke his leg on holiday in Cyprus once, I re-read the insurance documents waiting for the taxi, and DH rang FIL in the UK so he could report it to the insurance company and advise us. We still had an excess to pay.

I'm sorry but I think you are responsible for this debt.

whysogrumpy: "No, I didn't read any of the bumph that came with the policy beforehand - why would I? tbh, I never expected to have to use it"

That's the naive bit!

I lived in America when my first Dc was born. I had an expat insurance at the time and at no point was I billed. Every time I had an appointment (and I had a few) they referred back to my insurance details and billed them directly. I never had to pay or talk to the doctor/insurance about any bills- they sorted it between themselves.

The only time there was an issue was with an emergency visit as the hospital hadn't taken the right insurance details. Every month they sent me a letter and every month I gave them the right info. A year later we left the States having not paid that first bill despite our best efforts.

All this to say that the OP followed the regular insurance protocol while in hospital. If there had been any issues she should have been informed when discharged and certainly not a year later. And if her pregnancy wasn't even covered by her holiday insurance they just wouldn't have treated her btw.

I'd ignore it OP.

but she didn't know she hadn't paid - she thought it was all okay - this is ridiculous

I also lived in States and never dealt directly with insurance for medical treatment. They were hugely incompetent about claiming for the costs.

I also would ignore it.

Also, my experience of US hospitals is that they contact the insurance before they do anything else. Seriously, they would have had the info by the time she'd been there an hour--they're not going to do an expensive procedure if they don't know whether it'll get paid for. Mercenary but true.

Tuttut, just like us. I always take the policy with us. DH stayed with DS waiting for the dr with his injury and I went to read the policy and ring the insurance co to confirm what I read was correct.

anonacfr Different companies have different systems. To do (or not do) as the OP did while in hopsital is not "regular" insurance protocol. It is much more "regular" to phone for authorisation or, at the very least, advice, as soon as you know you need medical treatment.

I thought they asked for your credit card details along with the insurance bits. Just in case...

Is it via the bank - ie a package of benefits for a monthly fee? If so, it may well preclude pregnancy, and its taken a while for his claim to be rejected and reacted to? To be fair, being abroad doesn't mean you are in a differrent system - most people know to contact the company when making a claim. The hospital didn't sell you tthe insurance so not really down to them to tell you the t and c. I would be cross with the insurers tbh (if I am right) for no contacting you too say it was invalid.

clam, have you been to a US hospital? They don't take your card details as they are not a hotel. They present you with a bill when you are discharged. It is "regular insurance protocol."

I think the best you can hope for is that this is a scam. Then you can ignore it. Because I would be extremely surprised if any insurance company on this planet would pay out in these circumstances, a year on, when they weren't notified upon your return to the UK let alone in advance, for a pregnany-related incident when you hadn't informed them you were pregnant.

whysogrumpy, don't pay, don't give them any info over the phone. Contact your insurance and the hospital to see if the bill has been paid or you are still liable. If there are outstanding charges the hospital will set up a payment plan with you if you can't do it all at once. I really don't think it was the hospital that called you.

Op this really is rubbish for you and I'm sorry it's happened. Can totally see how you may not have thought to call them. It's not a normal situation to be in really, is it!?

You may owe the money and if you don't know either way, won't you just worry about it? I think I'd be inclined to make contact with the hospital. Explain you received an odd call and were a bit worried. As far as you were concerned this had all been sorted a year ago and you were not even given a bill so would hAve know idea how much you owe and a year later would not know if it is correct. If they have lost your details then give them to them again - its best to keep it all above board if you want them to be reasonable with you or intend to argue why you shouldn't pay/should only pay part.

Good luck.

Also, my experience of US hospitals is that they contact the insurance before they do anything else. Seriously, they would have had the info by the time she'd been there an hour--they're not going to do an expensive procedure if they don't know whether it'll get paid for. Mercenary but true.

This was very much how it came across. This was the man we saw before seeing anyone medical and, nice as he was, it seemed very much as if he was checking we were covered before allowing anything to be done. It has always stuck in my mind as being so different (obviouisly) from how things are done here. Once he'd done his stuff, there was no suggestion wharsoever that we needed to be doing anything regarding insurance. In fact, the woman on the phone said that she was phoning because they had lost my insurance details. she didn't say, "because you didn't phone the company as you should have," or, "because you were not covered as you didn't tell them you were preganant..." she actually told me it was their fault!! The way she said it suggests that they would have made the claim themselves had they not lost the details, no??

Wow - I literally remembered that crucial detail as I was typing . So it's not my fault for not phoning them is it?? I was getting so het-up after people were accusing me and saying how naive I am .

I also wouldn't contact your insurance at this stage. If you haven't contacted them and you were meant to then its already too late for that. Bearing in mind that you haven't at present got the money to pay, I would let them chase the insurance company and if you then hear again from them that the insurance company will not pay, at that point contact them directly. It should all buy you a bit more time if you do owe it.

We've got travel insurance via the bank with our account. TBH it is rubbish. I always take out another policy with someone else and make sure I declare all our pre existing medical conditions because I am so scared that the insurance company will do their best to wriggle out of paying if I don't.

Oh for fucks sake, people.

grumpy, my love, if you weren't asked to sign something saying you were responsible for the bill if your insurance didn't cover it, if you were not, as foreigners, given correct guidance by THE PERSON EMPLOYED BY THE HOSPITAL PURELY TO PROTECT THEIR REVENUE STREAM, if you were never issued with a bill or even given any indication that you might have to pay, or hoe much it might be, and it has been nearly a year since your trip, I cannot see that any court, anywhere, is going to force you to pay.

If they don't even have enough identifying details to be able to send you a letter, they aren't going to be able to adequately identify you to bar you from the United States.

Maybe you didn't handle it perfectly. Fuck, you were ILL. There are plenty of people who don't make it their life's mission to memorise their travel insurance policies. Don't beat yourself up. If any one person who is slating you would take a phonecall like that and merrily trill "Of course, let me just get my credit card!" when they can't even be sure the person phoning isn't a scamming twat in Idaho trying to steal your heard-earned, I will eat my fucking mooncup.

Ignore people who seem to get a thrill from making other people feel like shit for their own personal kicks, have a cupof tea and go cwtch your baby. If you get stuff in the post, well, then you can deal with it on a lotsofsmallinstallments basis but I am confident you will hear nothing about this again.

You should have phoned them.

If you crashed your car you wouldn't take it to a garage to get it fixed and leave it to them to phone them to arrange the bill to be paid, would you? Same thing really.

Sorry, but you were wrong not to inform them you were pregnant, and wrong not to inform them you were in hospital. You would have known that had you have read the policy documents!

It doesn't really master what their procedures are - you've either paid for services or you haven't.

Obviously, if you have treatment pre-authorised because of your HMO, that is one thing. There is very little paperwork, other than to confirm what went to the hospital and what went to the doctor. Your insurance covers ER 100% without the need for authorisation. Treatment for non-primary care usually needs authorisation, or at least confirmation.

However, UK travel insurance does need authorisation. It's not the same as a US occupational policy.

"There are plenty of people who don't make it their life's mission to memorise their travel insurance policies."

No one suggested she should memorise it. To be fair, the OP said she didn't read any of the bumph that came with it, as she never expected to have to use it. That's what I said was naive, and I stand by it.

OK - as someone who lives in the US & has had to use the emergency clause of my insurance when away from our regular doctors, here is my understanding of the process.

1. If you need to claim on your insurance for a standard service (e.g. regular gp type appt.) it is your responsibility to check that the insurance will cover it.
2. If it is an emergency/urgent situation, then they would prefer you to check first, but will honor the insurance if you were unable to do so (like in a car accident).

Many, many medical places take up to 6 months to get round to chasing up bills etc, so totally believable that they are just getting round to it. I suspect that someone didn't put in details correctly and now they're trying to sort this out. Or your UK address doesn't fit in their system so they need to do this by paperwork.

You prob do need to try and dig up info about the insurance, and ask them if a claim has even been submitted to them in the first place - I had a dentist try to suggest I pay them, then recoup from the insurance. I suggested they try insurance first, then it got sorted out. It is a paperwork nightmare and everyone is always checking the bills they get, then phoning up to get things changed etc.

The one thing I would double check on, is whether you were covered for pregnancy. Pre-existing conditions are treated differently, but it could depend on whether you knew you were pregnant before you took out the policy. It could mean that you had a larger deductible, but that the bulk of it would be covered by insurance.

Even if it turns out that you are liable, hospitals habitually write off millions of dollars of debt every year, although they could try the 'blacklisting' you option. I have no idea how that works.

They are often open to people negotiating the amount down, or striking some deal.

In spite of what you see on TV, the hospital won't have automatically checked your insurance and made sure you were covered. There's no 'wallet biopsy' before they treat you. It is expected that each person is aware of their insurance cover and checks their own bills, claims etc. Doctors have no involvement with the billing side of things so they'd treat you without asking, all details should have been taken before they let you see a doctor. The fact that you've heard nothing from the insurance makes me think that they weren't even sent a bill yet, so that should be the first move by the hospital. You had the treatment during the period that the insurance was in place, so they should honor it. Although there is a limit to how long after a service a medical co. can bill you, but I think it's a year.

I bet someone on the billing admin side has messed up and is in a panic trying to sort it out. If it's getting close to a year, they may be trying to bill you before it's too late.

Deep breaths, it will almost certainly be resolved.