I probably am, re: dad lots of issues.(sorry long)

[brighteyedbusytailed]

I'm going to try and be detailed without giving away too much detail which may be tricky so bear with me please, its not a black and white AIBU but I feel quite lost and fragile.
My parents are separated, we were a non-religious white family, my DF then after meeting some people converted to Islam which in itself isn't horrendous. but I was a teen at the time this was just after 9/11 which made it horrendous, I grew up in a pit village and was terrified for my safety in-case anyone found out.
.The worst thing is that he constantly shoves his religious opinions down peoples throats and sermons people does not or chooses not to pick up on how uncomfortable he makes people.
.He uses this as an excuse to not acknowledge birthdays etc my birthday hasn't been acknowledged for over 10 years.but gets annoyed if he is excluded for events , and picks and chooses I.e he will come to the party/meal but no card.
.my ds birthday's have never been acknowledged and last year he 'Accidentally' forgot his birthday was on that day and booked a trip away for that day , no happy birthday nothing.
.He asks how I'm doing but makes it very clear hes not interested and is talks endlessly about religion. If you don't appear interested he can become quite unpleasant. he sees his duty to spread the message.
.He really smells he lives by himself and I think struggles to look after himself , and often looks scruffy. As awful as it sounds its embarrassing in social situations.He never smelt this bad as I was growing up.
.Will visit for like about 6 hours at a time which is quite draining for me and expect tea regularly.
. He's very into conspiracies and very paranoid.
.He can be very arsy with my mum I have now made a personal 'no socializing with them both' rule.my mother is no angel she gets ratty but he goads her and doesn't
care where we are.

The reason I am posting here now is because I am getting married and have my own place he comes to visit.
He went out with my OH and when he was here and my BIL came here he literally hounded the bloke for hours and hours I rescued him in the end as I tried to make change the subject a lot but it didn't work.
. I am scared people will avoid us because of his behaviour, if my life was destroyed by a choice he made I would find it difficult to forgive.
. He has experienced some exclusion from other people so I feel bad but at the same time he brings it on himself.
.I will spend my entire wedding being stressed at to whether or not he is going to be really anti social or embarrass me , so instead of the biggest day of my life I will be a nervous wreck.
. I suffer from anxiety which obviously was exasperated by my unusual circumstances.

AIBU to ask him to tone it down a bit? and how would I go about it.??

Hmm I think uninviting him to the wedding would be too cruel but I will law down some laws so essentially it is his choice, and I out the choice in his hands.

I.E you agree no sermons or you do not come etc.

and also the next time he texts to visit I will say, 'Just don't bring up religion today the whole sermon you gave everyone last week made everyone very uncomfortable. you know my feelings on religion.

would that be okay?

I am still figuring how to tackle the smell, but yeah today's a new day no more pussyfooting.

Update:

due a visit today I txt him to clarify the time and I also sent another message.

'as a side note keep the religious talk down 'visitor' was bombarded and uncomfortable last time, I tried changing the subject a few times'.

I've had no reply so far I actually a bit :/

not sure when the wedding is but wouldn't hurt to start reigning him in now. His cooperation or lack of will indicate what you can expect at the wedding given half a chance.

I would keep insisting he keep his religious sermonising to himself and that that subject is a no go around you. You have every right to ask this if it makes you stressed and uncomfortable.

Feel for you, whatever problems he might be having this is an important time for you and if damaged by his behaviour will hang over you forever.

I think what you have text him is okay. I know the type of person you mean, its not limited to converts only but just a certain kind of personality..
I've converted to islam myself but at a really young age so I've grown up muslim but all my side of the family is not muslim, but all of dh's side are. and have experience similar to this with some of my side when they visit and some of dh's side behave like this very very keen to lecture others about religion when they are clearly uncomfortable. But if you do keep explaining that the behaviour is not benefitting anyone and they are actually putting people off, making them awkward and uncomfy, eventually then he should realise this and tone it down a bit
Maybe just say to him that you know he is available if you do ever have any questions about islam, so no need for him to keep bringing it up? especially on your wedding he needs to realise that his views or issues are not as important as it is a day for you
the birthdays i would just try not to feel bothered tbh, as its a small issue in the scale of things. but we do bdays too like a lot of muslims on the thread have said, i dont believe its haraam - but if your dad does then i think its less of an issue than about his behaviour generally and making guests feel uncomfy by hounding them and lecturing

Sorry to hear of this situation. I'm a convert to Islam too and follow the faith quite strictly I would say (don't like to do anything by halves!)

As you'll probably know as it is common sense, people practice their faith to varying degrees. There is a difference of opinion about birthdays and the extent to which they can and cannot be followed. Basically yes all the other people commenting are correct 100% that many Muslim's celebrate birthdays. I choose not too as to my family, my husband's family and most of the Muslim's we know. The majority of the scholars do not permit celebrating birthdays and Xmas etc as we have our own celebrations (Eid) as outlined in our teachings. I attend classes about Islam however and my teacher points out that there needs to be some understand of how things are in the West, and especially the difficulties experienced by converts - and certainly their families too - so we need to work towards positive and realistic solutions to these matters where difference occurs. Too often scholars in Saudi might make rulings regarding these matters without having any experience or insight into how complex the matters are and the adverse affects these matters can have on family relations. So, we are advised to try and find a 'middle' ground as keeping good family ties in Islam is so very very important. A compromise! In Islam I've seen the more religious and learned a person becomes, the more open-minded and tolerant they became. I know that sounds odd but its because new converts are full of zest and passion and zeal; (sounds like your Dad even though its been a while for him) but this can takeover the gentle, tolerant side of our faith which tends to kick in a number of years down the line as knowledge and understanding grows. I think your Dad is stuck in the first stage!

Your Dad probably just wants to shout from the roof tops about his faith because he believes it is the truth; but he totally needs to be aware of other people's discomfort and it is wrong to force people to listen and put them in difficult situations. We are encouraged to 'spread the message' but we are NEVER accountable for the outcome ie, whether people listen or take on board things - so I would say he needs to back-off. Like others have said a polite word along the lines of 'I love and respect you Dad, but we need to ask you to tone things down as people are getting uncomfortable and it could put up barriers which makes things worse' Muslim's believe the best way to teach others about Islam is to SHOW them - not preach at them - through kindness, good deeds and generally being a nice person! This involves being considerate to others about what they do and don't want to listen to!

About his unkeptness - again this is against our teachings, we are encouraged to look neat and tidy and this is strongly highlighted in Quran and Hadith. I'd ask him directly if he is struggling as he doesn't look and smell as clean and tidy as before. Said with a smile! These issues are always tricky - otherwise maybe you could ask him about why Muslims wash before prayer (in Arabic this is called wudu) and take the opportunity to slip something appropriate in at that time?

I hope you are able to resolve things with your Dad. :-)

Well he arrived and we went out for the day. he didn't mention anything until later on in the day.

I said to him imagine me turning up at your house drunk or spouting the merits of drinking or eating bacon, sex before marriage etc in front of visitors an how utterly inappropriate that would be.

he said he could see how making people uncomfortable Isn't good, but sometimes he thinks people are hypersensitive. so I'm a bit as this is not really a guarantee anyway.

It appears to me that the biggest issue for you at the moment us your upcoming wedding. You want him there as he is your father but you want to be able to enjoy yourself without wording about his actions and their impact on others.

Asking some trusted friends to kept an eye on him and defuse any situations or take hum off somewhere does work, as long as you pick the right people IYSWIM

can you use the old SMART rule? (specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, timely)
I.e. dad - we have spoken before about your zaelousness, I am concerned that you do not fully understand my perspective on this (offer examples as to why) I need you to tone it down by not preaching to anyone when you are on my company and if you do and I ask you to stop I need you to do that for me. I am concerned that you will make people on my wedding day feel uncomfortable because of this issue don I need to be reassured that you can do this. I would like you to begin from the next time I see you. If you are unable to do this for me then o feel I will have no choice but to not include you in my celebration, which would break heart.

This is incredibly direct and takes courage to do. I manage a large group of staff for a living so do this daily did work based things. It's really important to be very clear about each step a also to be open to a discussion to see if there is any comprrimise. You could write it down so you can be sure you say it write and if he interrupts say that you would like to finish first then you can discuss it.

This option would also work for cleanliness on wedding day, I.e speak to him about it first saying on day he needs to be showered and clean and if not he won't be included. Make sure you have a back up to walk you down th isle.

I agree that there may be mental health issues here which may be worth speaking to someone about.

I don't know if I have made any sense to you at all, but I hope so. I understand he is you dad and you love him, but it is ok not to like him very much. It is also ok to put yourself first as long as you do it on a way which works for you.

I would be more than happy to talk to you about this further as I really feel for you. Xxx

Sorry about typos and incorrect auto corrects, silly phone!

Yeah I haven't really wanted to think about the wedding as well iyswim.

good post lanny,
that text message was probably the most direct I have ever been there's a lot of pussyfooting around his behaviour he can be very embarrassing, and can be very erratic I think losing that hold over us will throw him.
its caused irreparable of mental and emotional damage and I physically have to leave the room when he starts or I have panic attacks this thrown in with embarrassing me in front of the family I have to marry into in my eyes is NOT ON.
I won't have his lifestyle choice destroy my life before its even started. I think maybe that's whats snapped in me.

After yesterdays conversation I thought, hmmm I wonder if he will listen.
I#m going to ask him to clean up his facial hair definitely for the wedding.

i've only read part of your op and none of the replies.

alarm bells are ringing. if he can't look after himself, he's vulnerable. can social services help? it might also be worth talking to your community police officer to make them aware of your dad's frame of mind. people who are vulnerable sometimes be led astray. i would have thought that, as a revert, he would have received some help from the local Muslim community. perhaps he's alienating them by the way he's behaving.

you need to distance yourself a little - six hour visits from a smelly dad must be very hard work!

only have him round by invitation, and always when you are definitely going out an hour or so later! drop him at home on your way to wherever you're going - make sure its a place he can't come with you.

The thing is mentally he is very competent very knowledgeable I think he is slightly unstable but would never accept help, its hard to see MH problems for self absorbed rude person.

He is someone who literally talks your ear off I've never met anyone like it and is not interested in small talk only what he interested in. my dp went on a day trip with him once he has no plans to do so again because apparently he spent the whole day talking about religion and the Qur'an, I am so deeply ashamed
I feel angry that I feel apologetic for it.

This may be way out of line....my son has asperger syndrome, a form of autism, and it was only after he was diagnosed aged 7 that I realised that my dad has it too. He's in his early 60s and it was not diagnosed back then (not till late 1980s). Dad talks at people about his special subject ( most people with aspergers have a special subject) because he finds it fascinating and doesn't pick up on people's 'bored' cues, like checking their watches, glancing away, saying 'anyway' etc. Dad's special subject is his rather academic field of study. He can also be socially inappropriate, making crude and suggestive jokes to attractive friends at my wedding for example. People with aspergers don't always have strict hygiene rules (though some are very fastidious) and can for example dress for personal comfort only rather than following any standards of what looks nice, or choose an unusual style eg always dressing in shirt and tie even on the weekends when at home.
Some of the things you said just made me wonder if he might have asperger syndrome too, undiagnosed. If so, he needs gently but directly telling what is acceptable, and maybe an agreed code word or sign, eg if someone from immediate family puts their hand on his forearm and leaves it there, dad is going on too long with person he's talking with and should accept a subject change or moving on to talk to someone else.
What do you think?

Here's a parent going trough a similar difficulty with her autistic son
www.mothering.com/community/t/1338072/religion-and-autism-spectrum

Hmm there is always an aspect there, a social ineptness.

yeah I can totally understand the 'not getting the hint' aspect. no crude jokes though thank god that would be horrendous.

It could be perhaps. it is in my family.

read the link , hmmm my DF is not that bad 'you're going to hell anyway' would probably result in a good crack.

He applies the rules as and when it suits him My life is far from his view of ideal, (teenage mum) but he hasn't disowned me etc I think he chops and changes as it suits him.

You wouldn't expect an identical manifestation in every autistic person. I included the link just to demonstrate that religious zealotry can be an autistic obsession, even though we usually think of things like trains or washing machines as special interests!

Having a strange week after confronting this in my mind, feeling very panicky/lightheaded haven't felt like that for years. The feeling I will never be free from the humiliation. And the fear my children will be affected too.

Why did this have to happen to me? its been half of my life that I've had to deal with this.

I just feel like behaving like a teenager locking my bedroom door and not coming out. but I cant :/.

I am trying to tell myself that I sowed the seed by sending him that message and not backing down. it is someones birthday fairly soon and my mum will have to ask him to do a favour for her (they are separated) regarding her being able to come, we were sat thinking of what to tell him and in what way, because it isn't unusual to be deliberately late if he isn't invited or being very arsy on arrival at not being invited.the person who hasn't acknowledged birthdays for 12 years my mother/we shouldn't have to deal with this.