to ask why do 'some' appropriately dressed racing cyclists think it is okay to not obey the highway code

[OwlLady]

and I say 'some' because it is some, not all

but they are bloody annoying riding out on junctions without looking because they think they are faster than a car and then you have to slam your brakes on and look at their skinny little arses in overpriced cycling wear and equipment

or three astride trying to wave you past on overgrown country lanes
pah!

all very tongue in cheek you understand but sometimes living in rural bedfordshire is trying

You were curious about the "mathematical connotations of the situation?"

Its an indeterminable variable, why would you be?

I think you are unnaturally obsessed with your drive to work. I think you need to get out of your car and looks at alternatives, to give you a greater perspective on the world.

I've alternatively walked, driven, bussed, trained and cycled to work. Currently I walk. And I consistently fail to see these killer cyclists victimising pedestrians and car drivers that the users of mumsnet appear to encounter.

I think the overall point about timing, ime is that drivers post, at times, as if their journey is far more important than any cyclists is, and that having more 'right to be on the road' then cyclists should not 'hold up' drivers. That's one explanation of why drivers get a little frustrated at times. So are prepared to take risks with cyclists H&S in order to get where ever they are going just a few seconds quicker.

There's no need to feel that you are 'stuck' behind cyclists any more than you should feel you are 'stuck' behind other drivers. We are all traffic, including drivers.

And 'being kind to cyclists generally..'. Really? You mean ' I am considerate to all road users'...(as the HC indicates you should be - we don't need your kindness). irrespective of whether your husband is a cyclist or a funny green man from the planet Zog.

geegee888

"I think you are unnaturally obsessed with your drive to work."

Not really, I like working out variables, its part of my job and in fact part of my life.
Its part of everyones life.
You know how long it takes you to get to work
you know how long it takes to get from the front of where you work to your desk.
even to how long it takes to get a drink, so you don't miss that all important phonecall.
It may be subconcious but you do it all the time.

"I consistently fail to see these killer cyclists"

no-one has said that there were any killer cyclists on this thread, but there are cyclists out there that put there own lives and others at risk.

unhombre

Stuck is a poor choice of word :)
meet on the road would be better.

I don't like anyone else using the road really. No one drives as well as me

Seriously though I do love the amount of cyclist with all the gear since the Olympics. It's made the world very tight, shiny and colourful

I think that some road users are just arseholes in cars. I am jealous of cyclists (as my Folks never taught me how to cycle). However, a bridge that I used to have to cross on my way to work had three lanes each way - road, then a barrier, a cycle lane, than another barrier, then the footpath. Yet I was almost mown down by cyclists tearing around the corner, on the footpath, so many times. They had a lane of their own (separate from the road, so totally safe), but whizzed around the footpath. I once sprained my ankle leaping out of the way of a cyclist tearing along the footpath. I was also once called a cunt (actually, it was roared at me) for failing to leap out of the way of a cyclist (on a pedestrian only bridge).

I do not doubt that drivers can sometimes be a danger to cyclists, but similarly, cyclists can be a danger to pedestrians.

"no-one has said that there were any killer cyclists on this thread, but there are cyclists out there that put there own lives and others at risk"

Perhaps a mathematical assessment of the likely damages of hitting a cyclist might be more useful? If you hit another road user due to your negligence and the degree of contributory negligence isn't 100%, and cause life them life changing injuries, it will cost you or your insurers x amount. x being the variable produced by multiplying their annual salary plus inflation with cost of round the clock care, etc.. Not all cyclists are poor; if you hit some of my dental colleagues who do cycle to work, it would result in rather an expensive day's commute.

Alternatively, the probability of causing an accident versus the level of concentration while driving. Or indeed the proportionality of a cyclist causing a car driver death or life changing injuries and vice versa.

Alternatively, concentrate on the driving skills rather than the individuals as you percieve them.

unhombre - I mean as long as I can see them. It's difficult when they don't have lights on their bikes. Haven't knocked any off yet though.

geegee888

You are infatuated with cyclists being hit by cars. So I shall leave you to your view that cyclists are never in the wrong.

I'm just pondering what unhombre said up thread. Regarding drivers believing they have more right to use the roads than cyclists.

Drivers pay road tax don't they, unlike cyclists, so surely that does mean they have more right to use the roads?

I don't intend this post to be as provocative as it sounds (honestly!), it's a genuine question.

The reason i mentioned the clothes is because it is always the cyclists in the full gear that do this, that pull out and try and race your car at junctions, or try and wave you past and get annoyed if you don't. It's not generally red faced middle aged men in metallica t-shirts and shorts that pull out on you at junctions. Anyway I am not really bothered anymore, argue amongst yourselves whilsti cut my lawn.

EndoplasmicReticulum, I agree with you too, it's madness but you get the same with joggers. It frightens me really. I don't really want to go and scrape some poor sod off the road at teatime

Oh my. Someone invoked the Godwin's Law of cycling threads.

The links here should help explain the historic 'road tax' naming of Vehicle Excise Duty.

Thanks Abz that was very educational, I had no idea! Makes sense now.

As a cyclist myself I too am pissed off by over-aggressive ones. Especially those who think traffic lights and one-way systems don't apply to them, and who cycle at speed on pavements expecting others to get out of the way.

Of course it can be irritating if one is going along a dedicated cycle track and meets pedestrians using it. But they are probably just being a bit dopey and I see no need to get unduly aggressive.

That said, one does as a cyclist sometimes have to be assertive (e.g. not be forced into the gutter) and slightly transgress the strict letter of the law, in the interests of self-preservation. For example I will move a little way beyond a red light, so as to make sure I am seen.

Gene - "Drivers pay road tax don't they, unlike cyclists, so surely that does mean they have more right to use the roads?

I don't intend this post to be as provocative as it sounds (honestly!), it's a genuine question. "

No, drivers don't pay road tax (not since about 1936)- it's an emmisions tax. Road repair comes out of the general tax levy. ( still doesn't stop drivers having a sense of 'entitlement' though..)

unhombre

"No, drivers don't pay road tax (not since about 1936)- it's an emmisions tax. Road repair comes out of the general tax levy. ( still doesn't stop drivers having a sense of 'entitlement' though..)"

Its Vehicle Excise Duty the amount maybe calculated on emmisions but its not an emmisions tax.

As a non driver in 'rural Bedfordshire' I do still have some sympathy for drivers trying to avoid 'keen' cyclists. BUT - I recently bought a bike and am slowly trying to work up courage to brave the B roads and windy lanes it is necessary to use to actually get anywhere. I am also tempted to cop out and use the footpaths (where they actually exist!) to avoid the scarily bad driving I witness when a car/ bus passenger. The number of safe bike routes in this county are small and as I am a nervous cycling returner not a bold old pro I am struggling with the necessary confidence agression to get out on the roads and use my bike as much as I would like too. I own no lycra.

Bedfordshire is not easy to get around on public transport or on foot as footpaths between villages are narrow if they are there at all, people are often forced onto narrow but busy roads and cyclists have to take their chances along with everyone else. It is not ideal. Coming fromr the city as I did I was a bit taken aback when I realised virtually that all the beautiful fields around us were in use and private farm land - no skipping through the corn fields hereabouts.

have you got an ordinance survey map bigmouthisstruckbymrgreyagain? there are usually public footpaths very closeby that you can access and I often see cyclists on them. Infact it's an absolutely beautiful part of the world for walking in, the only problem I have found is being chased by cows I don't mind cyclists being on the road though at all, sorry if I came accross that way.

It's actually illegal to cycle on a designated footpath in England. English law makes a difference between various types of rights of way and who can use them. Unfortunately bigmouth, there may be no legal off road option.

A lot of people don't know this. As an example, I did a CTC MTB course and the English on it had explain the funny coloured lines on the sample route planning OS maps to some of the Scots who'd never seen them before.

Thanks OwlLady I do use the many pretty country walks but they are not useful direct routes from village to village or to the Garden Centre or whatever - they are pretty meandering 'look at the lovely trees and flowers routes - nice but not alaways useful for my purposes. My nearest market town 3 or 4 miles away. The most direct route is along a very busy road with a path approx 3 inches wide for pedestrians and a ridiculously long and high pedestrian bridge - which is great fun in high summer with 3 children one in buggy one on buggy board and one trailing and whining behind but anyway... that was a couple of years ago and we can get the (overpriced and rarely on time) bus.

I am well aware of the illegality of using footpaths Abz - former transport planner with Road safety links - but I have been tempted on the in the between town roads because - rarely do you see pedestrians using them and I can get off bike or out of way/ on to road easily. ~~Preferable to dodging passing lorries while I am getting used to cycling once more. If I get arrested -[shrug] far cop innit.

I don't think you would get arrested :o like you say, hardly anyone uses them. I occasionally an odd bloke who wants to be alone or a group of ramblers or a stray muntjac, but never a police officer Have you never thought about learning to drive, or don't you drive for medical reasons? You don't have to answer. I just know my life would be really limited here if I couldn't drive but I do have a very disabled child

I have been faced with the necessity to learn to drive since we moved here Owl but I really don't want to. I am a lifelong pedestrian my parents never drove out of 7 siblings only one of us can. It was never an issue before now really.

I don't like cars I don't find them liberating - all that stress, road rage, other bad drivers, finding parking spaces, petrol fumes etc. etc. I have always prefered to be self reliant where possible and have not been limited by the inability to drive but living here - even with excellent train links I see that I am being forced to a position where not driving is going to limit my work options if nothing else.

Just hate being forced into something my natural instinct is too kick back against it - I would rather it be my choice. Anyway I digress

BoneyBackJefferson

"You are infatuated with cyclists being hit by cars. So I shall leave you to your view that cyclists are never in the wrong. "

Pretty sick comment, in view of the fact I mentioned I knew someone who was fatally injured. In fact I knew another two people who were fatally injured while cycling, and the local female Olympic hope a few years back was so badly injured by a car running into the back of her, she still can't walk properly, never mind cycle.

I'm not infatuated, I'm worried. What an odd, almost sociopathic, thing to say.

Sorry, I have not got the time to read the whole thread (this is my first cycling thread), but just would like to say that there are twats in cars and twats on cycles (although most people are rather nice and careful).

I used to cycle every day before I had DS and had more than a few incidents of being nearly killed by careless drivers and a couple where drivers deliberately tried to harm me. I also witnessed more than a few incidents of bad behavior by people on cycles - running red lights, turning without indicating, riding on pavements, riding in the dark without lights, riding in the wrong direction on carriageway, etc.

Lets just all be nice to each other and remember that even twats do not deserve to die or suffer bodily harm.

geegee888

Just because I refuse to see car drivers as the route of all evil and am prepared to put the blame for accidents on those that cause them (Drivers, bikers, pedestrians and cylists) that makes me "almost sociopathic".

You believe that cyclists are never in the wrong, I don't.

BBJ - I know this is a continuing theme of yours, but no-one has ever, as far as I can see, ever said on this or any of the multiplicity of threads on cycling, that cyclists are never in the wrong.