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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In thinking 40k income really isn't a fortune??

731 replies

mummymacbeth · 25/08/2012 19:25

Yes, a thread about a thread kind of. And I am fairly sure it has been done before but still!

I really don't think a forty grand gross income is a fortune. Our income with two kids is currently a bit less than that, though has been that in the fairly recent past. It is - and was - a bit of a struggle. We are not in the south east, we do not have a huge mortgage, expensive cars, kids are at state school and we don't manage to get abroad every year. We are living from month to month. A "fortune" it ain't!! (ref the post about someone wondering whether to have a fourth child)

OP posts:
PeshwariNaan · 26/08/2012 12:43

In central London 40K is quite different than other parts of the country. For us we have to stay in London for our careers but we work in the non-profit/ education sectors.

Affording anything other than a small flat at the moment is difficult - we don't have children yet but I'm pregnant and we have to put off buying a bigger place for a couple of years (we have 1 bedroom). We didn't even know if we could afford to have one child, but we went for it anyway.

Food is very expensive (Sainsburys) - we hardly ever eat out or go out in the evenings (perhaps once a month if that) and mostly we see friends for picnics at the park or for dinner parties at home. We don't go to the pub or drink at home much. We don't do holidays and even travelling by train is too dear for us - we take coaches.

Yes, I bet if we lived in a different part of the country this amount of money would be huge - and we always talk about how lucky we are to have what is a well-above average income - but our careers are based in London and all of our family is here as well. We will probably move out farther, but not that far.

WMittens · 26/08/2012 12:43

'Fortune' is a subjective word, and to some extent depends on the circumstances. However, a lot of families live comfortably on a lot less than that.

BlingBubbles · 26/08/2012 12:48

Dizzy, but as myself and many posters have already said, houses anywhere on te commuter belt into London and not that much cheaper than living in London itself plus then you will be paying massive amounts on travel to get into work, sometimes as high as £3k a year!

We live in greater London so we don't have a London postcode however we are considered to be in zone 6, our 2 bedroom Victorian terrace cost us £230k to buy, which is a ridiculous amount f money, the same type of property in zone 3 for example would cost you double that. Our friends up north have the same type of house and paid £80k.

mercibucket · 26/08/2012 12:48

I don't think most people are saying it's not enough to live on, just it's not the massive fortune people think it is sometimes

And if you only earned 6k a year and had kids, as well as paying no tax on that amount, you would also be entitled to 'free' everything - as I've said before, add up the cost of housing benefit, council tax, free school meals, prescriptions, plus here you get free swimming and sports lessons for kids etc.

If you live rent free and don't have to pay bills, then it is disingenuous to say you live well on x y or z small amount of money without mentioning that fact as a sizeable amount of most people's outgoings consist of rent/mortgage and tax

BlingBubbles · 26/08/2012 12:51

Oh I forgot to say we did move out to buy our house, we previously rented in zone 3 but couldn't afford the house prices so moved slightly further out

tittytittyhanghang · 26/08/2012 12:53

YABU, considering that £40k is quite a bit above the average wage. And imo even the average wage (is it about £26k?) is still quite high. I live in Scotland and theres not much people i know even on the average wage let alone £40k. I always suspect that a lot of people, with children and mortgages earn a lot less (maybe £10-£18k) but the lucky sods earning millions are obviously bumping up that average wage. I would like to know what salary size the majority earn, rather than average iykwim.

NarkedRaspberry · 26/08/2012 13:00

GrinGrinGrin At 'move out of London.' London is £££££. Most of the S East is ££££ with the odd £££££ bit thrown in.

DizzyBeeisSchoolShoeShopping · 26/08/2012 13:00

mercibucket, you might not get free everything - I earn just above minimum wage and so get WFTC. As a result I am not entitled to free school meals or council tax benefit. It costs me 1/3 of my salary for the both of them.

DizzyBeeisSchoolShoeShopping · 26/08/2012 13:01

Bling, I know. That's why I moved out of London completely.

BlingBubbles · 26/08/2012 13:03

m.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2010/oct/16/income-45000-pounds-does-not-go-far?cat=money&type=article

Linking on my phone so hopefully it works.

An interesting read.

tittytittyhanghang · 26/08/2012 13:03

Although now that i think about it its not a fortune neither, dp earns £36k, i earn £14k Sad and tbh we pay the bills and not much more. But we live a comfortable life. But i still think YABU.

BlingBubbles · 26/08/2012 13:12

Lynette, thank you very much Grin

M0naLisa · 26/08/2012 13:12

When we were earning the £6k per year we were getting wtc so was t entitled to free school meals or hb. When DH stopped working then we were entitled to it.

M0naLisa · 26/08/2012 13:12

Wasn't entitled to free school meals

Viviennemary · 26/08/2012 13:15

A couple earning £40,000 gross between them will get quite a bit more net salary between them than one person earning £40,000. Of course they will have twice the expenses such as travel and so on.

£688 a month to pay for council tax, untilities, insurance, petrol, clothes, TV licence, school trips, other extras. I think that would be quite tight even with only one child. And holidays, Christmas, birthdays and so on still to pay for. I think that would be hard. Certainly not comfortable. Or am I being unrealistic. It's extras that throw me. Like unforseen car repairs and so on.

NarkedRaspberry · 26/08/2012 13:43

I pulled together the figures as an example. I don't know how it would be to live on, but it does explain why so many women stop working for a while after having a second child - it's too expensive to put two through nursery.

NarkedRaspberry · 26/08/2012 13:44

I think a sole earner gets £29k , after tax.

Spuddybean · 26/08/2012 13:54

narked i don't think £688 for a family of 3 would be 'comfortable' to live on. CT = £130, Utilities = £150, Phone/tv/internet (no sky, but need internet for DP's work) = £50, Food/toiletries/household/nappies = £300 (really cutting back), TV license £15, petrol (?). It just isn't doable. This is with no shoes or winter coats or anything for contingencies.

Socknickingpixie · 26/08/2012 14:08

im following and reading this thread with much intrest as how different people live is very much a intrest of mine,and i could help but do this so sorry in advance.

lots of you are making huge incorrect assumptions about certain systems and households in the uk and its going both ways. we have people in receipt of benefits missing them out with regard to total income,we have people whose salerys to the people on benefits seam huge but then pointing out certan costs but also failing to mention that on the salery stated they should be getting more help.
we also have massive missunderstanding of who should get what sort of help.

fyi.
any family who gets wtc even if its only £1 a week will not under any circumstances qualify for free school meals wtc automaticly exempts you from qualifying no matter what your income. even if it is 10k below the max earnings.no matter what other benefits you recive.
also familys on quite a few of the apparently automaticly qualifying benefits will also be exempt if there total income is higher than a certain ammount no matter how many kids they have.

any family with less than 2 children on a low income will not be getting anywhere near 40k in total income unless they live in private rented in a very expensive area and/or have a higher disregarded income due to a disabled family member.however this is perfectly likly with more than 4 kids and possible with 3 or 4.

a family who jointly earn 40k a year with 2 kids and childcare costs should be getting the childcare element of tax credits at approx 4k a year.(in the current tax year and based on £300pw costs if costs are higher the element will also be)

every child in the uk gets free perscriptions, adults in wales also do.being on a low income in england does not automaticly qualify you for free perscriptions as an adult.

no matter what your income if you do not qualify for exemption from perscription charges if the cost of your perscription charges is a consideration i.e you have a fair few you can buy a exemption cert.

water capping is not automatic for familys on benefits even if you are on out of work benefits.most water boards require you to have more than a certain amount of children under 18 and in full time education(usually 3) if you are on a low income but dont have enough children you can only claim this if a member of your houshold has a disability that requires them them to use more water,they HAVE to be formaly considered to be disabled AND have medical evidence that the disability requires higher water use,or have a condition that requires a large number of home based dressings or on dialisis (any household meeting the last condition can apply) the water cap is approx £450 dependant on what waterboard you use i dont think any board has a cap below £400 at the moment.

housing benefit for working families rarely means full rent paid if you are not a large family. even if your circumstances mean you do get either full hb or mostly hb this does not mean you will get full council tax benefit.

any family even if your mega rich if you are a single person you will get the single person discount from ct.

if anybody within reason Grin wishes to just put it out there i am more than happy to work out what you should qualify for using a proper benefits calc not one that wont take into acc the impact of one benefit on another (like the direct gov one does its shite)

LynetteScavo · 26/08/2012 14:12

I have worked out we spend on basics (or what I consider to be basics for day to day normal living)...which includes everything, such as swimming lessons, haircuts, petrol, childcare....things we need to raise three DC.....a grand total of £31,878. Obviously a massive part of that is the mortgage (although our house is not massive, lol!). We also need to run two cars so we can both work, but that amount doesn't allow for us to save for the next car, etc.

So I have no idea how people consider themselves comfortable on £20K unless they are a single parent with one child and with very low housing costs.

LynetteScavo · 26/08/2012 14:14

So, DH earning £40K, after tax, would leave us short.

I can only conclude, op, YANBU.

TalkinPeace2 · 26/08/2012 14:18

Sadly, over the past 15 years, many of those "living" on low incomes have in fact been building up significant unsecured debt on store and credit cards.
I know of people who have borrowed roughly 20% a year above their earnings for years and are now in VERY dire straits.
But they just do not "get" that new clothes should replace old, that Sky and smartphones are not necessities, but that food and exercise are.

Viviennemary · 26/08/2012 14:20

I would also love to know how two people can manage on £19,000 gross income if they are paying rent or a mortgage and council tax and so on. I just don't think you could.

CailinDana · 26/08/2012 14:21

Lynette, for a lot of people swimming lessons and haircuts are not essentials. I get my hair cut once a year, DH does his own hair with a shaver and DS's hair costs about £3 every three months or so. I will teach DS to swim myself as I simply can't afford to pay someone else to do it. If I had a car it would cost maximum £1000, I would not get a loan and I would not get anything newer as I couldn't stretch to that. My last car was 12 years old and had 130,000 miles on the clock before she died. We haven't replaced her as we can do without.

It is totally possible to be comfortable on 20k but only if you are comfortable not having small luxuries. If there are things you feel you can't do without, but which you can't afford, that's a hardship at any income level.

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