To think this is really a toxic friendship and maybe I should draw a line

[quesadilla]

I have an old friend who has been a good friend for a long time and is generally very loyal and can be very good fun. Plus we have a lot of shared history etc. The one big problem is she's very touchy about her childlessness -- or more accurately about the fact that most of her friends have children. She's been very clear that she doesn't want those of her friends who have them (which is the vast majority) to talk about them other than in passing. Up to a point I'm prepared to indulge this. I dislike baby bores and people who think that their kids should be the centre of other people's worlds and I understand that people without children want not to have the topic forced down their neck. So generally speaking I avoid talking about my dd other than just circumstantial references.

But earlier this week I was forced to cancel a date with her at very short notice because my DD had to go to hospital unexpectedly. Not only was she very unsympathetic: she initially suggested my DH should be able to deal with it alone and was trying to control me by wanting me to come to the hospital with him, she actually required me to take the tickets to the event we were supposed to be attending to her, delaying my trip to hospital, in order that she could go.

I felt so guilty at the time about cancelling (knowing she was going to be pissed off) that I went along with this and then afterwards when I'd had time to think I was flabberghasted at the selfishness of this. True, she'd already left the house before I cancelled. And it must have been very annoying. But I realize now any sensible person would have said "screw the date, family's health comes first." I just think anyone who puts a date with a girlfriend ahead of that girlfriend's need to be with their child when the child is sick must have a warped set of priorities.

I have let this incident go -- as I usually do. But I know this sort of thing will happen again. If I raise the issue with her there will be a row. She probably won't really take on board what I'm pissed off about. I like her and don't really want to lose her. But I feel like a friendship that admits no space for the child or children of one friend may be a friendship that's stuck in the past. I don't know if its possible to get past this.

She's unbelievable. You should be sorely pissed off at her for delaying your trip to the hospital. You actually did that?

If a friend if mine was not supportive and in fact moody like yours over a cancelled date when my dc were in hospital, I would be telling her to eff off. Literally.

I think you need to grow a pair and tell her she is BANG out of order.

What if a relative of hers was in hospital? Bet she'd expect you to be supportive.

She sounds utterly pathetic and childish and you are enabling her.

It's very weird that she thinks you would be happy going to an event when your own child had to suddenly go in to hospital. Is she generally a me me me kind of person?

So you did get the ticket to her, but then you went back to the hospital? Not that it matters particularly, just trying to be clear about what you actually did.

Re. your DD and the hospital - I know this is going to sound callous but how bad was it, did you both need to go? In your place I would of course have gone anyway - but quite likely my DH wouldn't have, especially if it was a work day or he had an important thing on (he's not a fan of hospitals, nor of taking DS to one "unnecessarily"). So in your place I would probably have taken DD myself and sent DH to drop off the ticket.

People who don't have children aren't always attuned to how important it is for the parent to "be there" for their child (and some who do have children are equally unaware sometimes!) and so wouldn't understand why you both had to go - doesn't make them warped.

I think that if you are harbouring resentment then there's not much point in continuing with this friend.
She's never going to change, especially as you've accommodated her to date, so why would she even realise she's doing anything even slightly out of order?

WinkyWinkola you are probably right. The problem is with long-running friendships that a pattern gets established and people don't like the boat being rocked. It may sound pathetic but I don't really know how to change the terms of engagement. But glad to hear you don't think I'm insane.

If it was me I'd end the friendship. She was being a gobshite.

Can't believe you delayed going to hospital though..

You sound like a lovely friend, but you need to raise the issue with her. I once had to let a friend down 3 times, as DD was having asthma attacks and my friend was sympathetic.

If you change the terms of engagement and she doesn?t like it, then it shows she?s not such a good friend after all.

Thumbwitch: my DH was picking my DD up from childcare anyway and he texted me to say she was quite unwell and he thought she needed to go to A&E. She had a bad cold and was wheezing badly, having seemed better in the morning. In retrospect, technically she may not have needed to go to A&E but because she's been in hospital before with asthma-like symptoms and is quite small we didn't want to take chances. I was leaving work anyway and to be fair to friend, the venue was a 10 minute walk away so I dropped the tickets with her and then grabbed a cab up to the hospital. It wasn't a huge detour (and was much easier for me to do it than DH who was already en route to hospital with her). So its not like I went significantly out of my way. Its more the sentiment, or lack of it, on her part. I just feel that 99% of people on hearing that a child had been hospitalized would instinctively have gone "yeah, do what you have to do, forget the date" without question. I certainly would. The fact that she put herself first in what was clearly a distressing situation for me involving my infant child made me think she had a sensitivity chip missing....

In all honesty, what sort of friendship is it when you have to pretend that you don't have children and live a life of a singleton?

Seriously, your child is part of who you are and her selfishness in not recognizing it, should make you doubt just how equal the relationship really is. I'm not saying that you have become a baby bore, but at the same time there needs to be acknowledgement that things have changed for you.

Hi. I don't have kids and have been ttc for a long time. You don't say why friend is touchy - does she choose to be child free? Might she be jealous? Anyhow, if this happened to me I'd not even think twice that my friend had to be at the hospital. I also wouldn't dream of asking people to not talk much about their children - this feels very selfish. There I situations I now actively avoid (first bday parties, christenings) for self preservation reasons, but this feels different. People's lives change and she has to accept that many if her friends will have children and they will always come first in such situations. I guess only you know if there are other lovely things about her that make the friendship worthy of continued investment. I think you are well within your rights to address her attitude, I'm sure other friends are feeling the same.

OK, thanks for clarifying. She definitely lacks the ability to put herself in your (or any other parent's) shoes - but I don't know that 99% of other people would have done it differently. I'd say most of them would, but not as many as that! I must know some fairly shit people too, tbh.

I suppose she didn't ask later how your DD was either, did she?

In reality you need to either tell her how upset you are that she was so insensitive to your needs, and then see how things pan out; or continue to expect that this is how she will continue to behave as you haven't challenged it; or end the friendship now.

I had a friend for years who was rather anti-children (genuinely, she has never wanted them herself) and she found my having a baby rather tedious, I'm sure - after I'd moved overseas, of course a fair number of my FB updates involved pics of my DS so my family and friends could keep up with what we were doing - she defriended me. No reason given, nothing happened between us - the only thing I (and mutual friends) could think of was that she was sick of hearing about DS.

Itsjustafleshwound I bend over backward not to be a baby bore. Partly because I was single and childless for a long time and it really is tiresome. Partly because I like space away from my little one sometimes. And also out of respect for her. But as you say, its kind of ridiculous to be expected to carry on as if you didn't have a child. Kind of like Peter Pan syndrome.

Just really hard to know what to do.

rabbitonthemoon I can't be 100% sure because obviously sometimes people conceal their real reasons but she claims not to be jealous of people having kids per se and I believe her. I think if anything the jealousy is more that she resents having less spontaneous access to her friends and the change in lifestyle. But you make a very valid distinction. I have other friends who are childless and ttc, or who don't have kids and don't want them, who would also have unreservedly said "yes, do what you need to do." It is ultimately selfishness.