Aibu to think that the Scottish education system is far superior to the English one?

[Margerykemp]

What I see on the news and here about GCSEs and it sounds crazy!
-different exam boards
-modular exams
-sitting exams in different years
-inflexible attitude to deferring entry
-no automatic entry to local school
-league tables
-some courses being 'worth' numerous GCSEs
-going to secondary at 10/11 rather than 11/12
-church schools
-academies
-different systems in different regions
-local authorities not having enough places for all their residents
-a high proportion of private schools, with eye watering fees
-schools making kids do 'Micky mouse subjects' to get them up the league tables
-a ' choice' system which favours pushy middle class parents

• lottery placements

-too big a jump from GCSEs to a level -too few a levels taken -not knowing a level results before applying to uni -Michael Gove being in charge!

I don't know how you all put up with it!

There is parental choice in schools in Scotland though, it's just more limited...but that's more to do with the difference in population, it's fairly common in cities for children to go to a school that isn't their catchment area school. But logistically it's just harder in most places, so the system works on the assumption that they'll go to their local school.

I don't see that less academic children are really treated differently in either system...but like I said, not much experience in England.

The SEN/ASN difference though, the ASN system is fairly complex, but i have experience with it - the SEN system completely baffles me, it seems to have ridiculous amounts of red tape and be very restrictive. The process of getting a statement in place compared to the equivalent process in Scotland seems massively hard on parents.

The Scottish system is also hard on parents, without a statement.

Provision can change at any minute and if you want a specific school which will meet your child's needs you will have a battle on your hands.

CSPs are legally binding in the same way that statements are. Getting a statement seems to involve masses of work from parents in a way that CSPs don't though.

It is harder to get a place in a non-mainstream school, a lot of that is of course that there are just less special schools in a lot of areas - which is frustrating. In my experience though, mainstream schools cope pretty well with ASN provision - because they have to. Schools in England seem to get away with not supporting SEN pupils in a way that most Scottish schools can't. Not that that's of any help to patents stuck with a school not doing what they should and no viable alternatives of course.

I'm not sure that the ASN system is better than the SEN system - its just that when I try to compare them, I don't understand the SEN system.

The Scottish ASN system is very, very hard on parents. Trying to get support for my AS sons actually made my DH ill and put him on medication. it got to the point where he couldn't even go through the school gates.

We had meetings where we thought we were meeting with the head teacher and class teacher and we found that we were actually meeting with the council's legal team when we got there. We weren't allowed access to agendas or minutes for any of our meetings. We were actually told "Wait until the new tribunals come into effect and take us to one if you like. It'll take a minimum of 3 years and you'll get nowhere.) We were told that the council wasn't prepared to support or sons because they didn't want to spend the money.

the PS head teacher lied to our faces and to representatives from the council and the secondary school. Another head teacher stopped the OT and the speech therapist from coming into school because it took time away from lessons (my boys were at least a year ahead of their classmates, in some subject 4 or 5 years ahead.)

One of my sons had an action plan put in place by an OT, but the school completely ignored it, they even took away things like the writing slope that had been provided and gave them to other kids. This son was bullied so badly that he had to be signed off school by the GP because it made him so unwell. The school refused to believe it because the boy involved was from a "good family" who supported the school to the tune of a couple of thousand pounds a year.

My daughter was victimised and ostracised by other children because of the way she spoke - when she was excited her tongue used to run away with her and she would become unintelligible - and because her speech therapist was Irish, she had a little touch of an accent. The school refused to do anything about it.

DS4 spent a year in nursery. All that year, the nursery staff never heard him speak to anyone, he didn't join in anything at all, he never played with another child, he wet himself every day because he wouldn't use their toilet because it meant speaking to them.......They didn't do anything, just left him to get on with it.

When we decided to take them out of school to HE, it took the council more than 3 months to agree, even though there were no CP issues or anything like that. They were phoning and emailing me daily, contacting my husband at work daily, turning up on my doorstep to inspect my "first aid provisions". They sent me out timetables and equipment lists. You name it.

The school system in this country has almost given my husband and I nervous breakdowns. Compared to what we have experienced, the statementing process in england doesn't seem to bad.

Oh I know the ASN system can be hard on parents, but talking to English parents they have similar experiences - only with masses of paperwork and hoops to jump through as well, That's why I was commenting on it.

Sorry, I meant similar experiences to Scottish parents - I wasn't dismissing your experience.

The Scottish system is also hard on parents, without a statement.

i AM NOT SURE HOW TRUE THAT IS MY DD IS DYSPRAXIC AND GOT AMAZING LEARNING SUPORT BEFORE HER DIAGNOSES AND AFTER AND HAS COME ON LEAPS AND BOUNDS WITHOUT ANY KIND OF STATEMENT ,

MY CAPS HAVE LOCKED I AM NOT SHOUTING [GRIN]

I don't know anything about the ASN/SEN systems.

I have, however, just remembered about Gifted and Talented. That system bothers,me a lot.

I like the idea behind GIRFEC. In theory, no-one should be given a special label, but every child should be given the support that they require. It seems to me to create less potential for bullying/ostracising of bairns.

(Theory and practice don't always match up, I know!)

Tabulahrasa, I know, it's fine. I just think that, sometimes, people don't realise how hard it can be to get ASN support. I do think that it can be a bit of a lottery, depending on the LA and even individual schools.

MrsJay, see above. When my DS2 was ready to start school, the head of our local primary school refused to take him. He had been at nursery there and had undiagnosed AS. I was told point blank to look for a different school for him, because the local one didn't want him. Luckily the community paed got him into a school in the next village, so I moved both older boys there. But that didn't end too well either.

The system can be a nightmare for parents and kids.

I am really glad we don't have gifted and talented in scotland I dont understand it at all , we had the 5 to 14 system and My dds thrived on it then treated each child as an individual , DD2 is the last year to do standard grades as it is going to be cirriculam for excellence It looks confusing

stress i read your post sounds awful , I just have no personal experience of a statement being needed for my daughter getting help and learning support, our village primary is great though, they were the first school to take in disabled children in mainstream in the 70s so it has a good reputation

Mrsjay, some are luckier than others, sadly. (I too am lucky with the support DD gets but not all are)

you are right fanjo it shouldnt be difficult to get a child the help and support they need at school I find it

I'm Scottish, left school with four Highers (AABB and an Int 2 in Maths) at the end of 5th year, went to uni at 16 and ballsed up something terrible. If I'd stayed on for 6th year I'd still only have been 17 when I went to uni, but that extra year would have helped me make up my mind about what I really wanted to do/where I wanted to go.

Now I'm 28 and about to go back to university to get the degree I've wanted for the last twelve years. I am NOT going to drop out again!

Oh, we were the first year that took Higher Still/Intermediates and it was a total farce - the Higher Maths paper had a whole section in it that the class had never been taught, yet had to answer!

Dint think you could get into uni at 16 its awffy young I take it you are a winter birthday cat ? my dd was 18 in 6th year dd2 will be 17 I am not letting her leave in 5th year , well i will if she wants but wont be encouraging it , good luck with uni

Didn't*

catpower are you me? I left school with 5 highers AAAAA at nearly 17 and went to Uni to do a course I wasn't really sure about, dropped out after a year. Am now 27 and have been back at Uni for 2 years (hopefully) to finally get my degree. I too think that an extra year or two of eduction would have made the world of difference to me and life would be very different now!

Ps catpower shall we set up a thread somewhere for Uni drop outs having a second bash? Or does such a thread exist?

I'm another uni dropout having a second go. Through OU this time :)

Just anecdotal, but I've been absolutely appalled by the level of work that my DNs in Scottish schools do - a couple of years behind what I was doing at the same age. Their school is apparently pretty well rated too.

The other thing that I feel a bit about is this practice of making composite classes, but perhaps that's done in England too?

I think I have read about composite classes in england I am sure they do ? not sure about the work load in schools though are your daughters finding it difficult ?

DS started p1 last week. We moved up from England only the week before. Getting him a place was easy, we just phoned the school we wanted, they said yes and we rocked up on day 1.

He is young for their cutoffs so at 4.7 is in a class with children turning 6 in the next few weeks, but I think that will actually push him. So far I think it's been excellent.

Has anyone mentioned lack of SATS tests?

The Scottish system is definitely more straightforward but the new curriculum at secondary level is causing problems for DS1 Whois in the guinea pig year. He has dyslexia type issues and is struggling with his work which means he is being put forward for national 4's ( or the dumbo exams as he calls them) rather than 5's, his self esteem is plummeting and it is going to behard going keeping him motivated as he is going to end up having to do Highers in sixth year at this rate.

I haven't had any problems getting my lot into an out of catchment secondary, they have to take you if they have room and you request it.

the cirriculium for excellence sounds god awful wiggly try and not worry though and try and not get your son to worry about the 'dumbo' exams they will be recognised , still sounds confusing though, I am relieved that dd is still doing standard grades an Int1s

I will say that SN provision is a total lottery though, varies hugely from school to school depending on the experience and personality of the staff. In our case it was very much led by me ( they even let me come into school and work one to one with DS2 to catch up on work that was not managing to complete in class), I did not mind this as I like to be on control!

All those people who went to uni at 16 after 5th year, was it your choice todo that or did school or parents make you. I know some people who did but they were fed up at school and desperate to leave early so it was their choice.