To have cleared everything out of DD1's room except the bed....

[Poodlepower]

My dd1 age 7.5 has been driving me mad recently. She doesn't listen, is gobby, defiant and bloody stubborn! She has been having tutoring twice a week and needed to do 15 mins work. This is absolutely necessary as very far behind. She refused. I tried to wait it out but three hours later.....

She is quite spoilt, doesn't have any chores or anything to do but still thinks she's the worst treated child in the universe. My mum passed away 5 months ago unexpectedly. Today would have been her 62nd birthday so we took my dad out. Dd1 was loud and gobby and embarrassing.

I have just thought I cannot take this anymore. I never get a break anymore as my mum and dad are the only ones I had. I have given my everything to help my Dd1 with the loss of her nanny but I don't think the behaviour is due to this. Just feel like a terrible person, mother. I can't cope with her anymore, I just resent the way she behaves and treats me like shit. Everybody like shit actually.
I have created a monster!

When she is feeling helpful and pleasant you couldn't meet a lovelier child but....

Sorry about your mum. :(

It sounds like your DD needs a clear system of sanctions (and rewards!) for her behaviour. Just suddenly going nuclear and clearing her room out is a bit unfair if she hasn't experienced any clear escalation of sanctions leading up to this. Does she have any favourite toy or computer time that could be cancelled?

I also think she does need some chores to do to give her some sense of responsibility. Some reward related to successful completion of these might also be needed.

No ur not being.unreadonable. i feel the same way about my ds1 atm. hes just turned 3 and everything.is difficult and negative annd an absolute battle.

Thanks you are probably right. I did tell her I was fed up of it all and would be clearing her room. She just said "then do it" - so I did! Grrrrrr!

The problem is I have tried taking away her iPod or DS before and it just doesn't bother her, she will just play with something else!

Nothing seems to have any impact on her, it's like she is totally emotionless.

Euphemia you are right about the spoiling....in the past she has always been grateful but now it feels like a hard habit to break as she announces how hard done by she is in comparison to x or y (which she isn't btw). I didn't have a lot when I was growing up hence the reason I tend to overcompensate.....

It just feels like its gone so far, how do I change things? It's just all too much.

Well don't spoil her! Could you not get another nanny?

YANBU.

Ds and dd are 5 and almost 4. We gutted there rooms a few weeks back after a good month of them trashing it several times a day and never seeming to play. Now they sleep in one room, and we have one for the toys, today I got a box out they've not had since and its been wonderful, they've played quietly, they've played! Which is a huge improvement.

Granted this is temporary as were also planning to move and dc3 will be along soon. BUT I'm never letting them have all there stuff in there rooms again!

Could you get another nanny

Nanny = nana (grandma)

Now get her to 'earn' getting her things back in an age apporpriate way, either through specific good behaviours or carrying out specfic chores.

sorry, that must have seemed really tactless.

Right. Your weapons are conistancy, firm but fair, listening and praise. You need to make sure you are getting the tone of your voice right when asking for simple demands. Give warnings of changes to activity, cut out unnecessary language and follow through with any punishment. Don't make the punishment too big cause she knows it won't happen and can't be sustained. So "in ten minutes tea will be ready. You have ten mins left of TV/playing etc. when i say it is tea time you will stop what you are doing and wash hands and lay the table. What are you going to do?". Get her to repeat it back. "i know you won't disappoint me and i'm counting on you to do the knives and forks. Do you think you can be responsible for that? Don't worry if you can't but tell me now. ". You then need to give a five min warning then tea time. Praise but not gushing if she does actually do it. Ignore any attention seeking, just praise anything good. Sometimes i find it useful to adopt the same sort od tone that a teacher adopts in school. Almost act out the part as it slightly removes you from the emotional grrrrrrrr of it all. Don't try and solve all the problems at once just pick a couple of things that really bug you. Its all easier said than done and they all go through phases of being buggers. She's just had a massive change in her life and she might be scared that you and other family members might die. My youngest used to be revoting when DH was away on a business trip and he gets more lippy and anoying after he's been playing with friends for a long time or has been in front of a screen for too long. I banned Tracey Beaker when he was younger and bloody Horrid Henry as well because he was always a little wotsit after watching them as well.

Good luck. Its really draining and so annoying when they are glib and brattish in front of other people. I find having a quiet word in the car afterwards is a good time to go over it and then if he wants to strop and sulk i just let him get on with it.

She may not miss an iPod, but there must be something, either a visit, or having a child to play, or an event, that she would be very sad to miss that if you give her clear warnings, then could be a substitute punishment.

I would not make it arbitary though, clearly you can't take her swimming or whatever if she is gobby and rude and doesnt do as she is told.

We had a little outbreak of rudeness the other day, it lasted two days before I explained we wouldn't be doing a couple of events if everyone carried on ignoring my instructions to be good in public. They apologised and behaviour is much better.

I also think you need to spell it out sometimes: when we go out today, you need to do as you are told, which means if I say 'stop X' then you need to stop. If you don't, then XYZ.

And really do it.

Not sure about the tutoring, sounds like she's rebelling a bit- I think locking horns for 3 hours over 15 min is probably counter-productive for you, just state what the consequences are if she doesn't do the 15 min and walk away. So, you don't get to play out/see friend/play on X if it isn't done.

Finally, she and you are both grieving and it's a difficult time, you are obviously very raw and she is being rather badly behaved, it does sound hard at the moment and perhaps no one is to blame.

The response I've always liked to 'I am so hard done by' statements is: "Yes, no-one in the world has ever suffered as much as you" followed by everyone carrying on with what they were doing. :)

I don't think your being unreasonable. Clear her room back and when she starts behaving better let her earn back things one by one and of she misbehaves warm her she will loose something she has earned and if she carries on then take it away again. Really sorry to hear about your mum and hope things improve for you soon

Do not back down now, even if you start to feel you have been too harsh - you have to follow through. She can earn back an item at a time for good behaviour.

If her behaviour deteriorates, start to sell stuff..

My dd1 is the same age and her behaviour sounds very similar to your dd. It seems to have happened gradually over the last year. I have got so fed up with it I have told her she needs to show a massive improvement over the summer holidays or there will be no brownies, dance classes, gymnastics or any other after school activity when she goes back to school. We have had lots of use of time outs, zero tolerance on please and thank you's (if she doesn't say please she doesn't get what she asked for at all), if she leaves clothes on floor instead of putting in laundry basket then they get bagged up and put away. There have been lots of improvement but still a long way to go.

Sorry about your mum. Good luck with your dd, I'm sure you'll get there.

Just to support you really. I have one of these age 6, and I feel your pain. Nothing seems to work, she doesn't really care when anything is taken away. Just when we seem to have cracked it a new naughty and unexpected behaviour appears. So I can offer sympathies and hand holding x

Sympathies with your mother.
How much time do you spend with her, just hanging, playing cards, painting your nails, doing eachothers hair, gossip about her school and your work/life, maybe even talking about your mother...bonding? It might help the both of you understanding eachother better.
Also agree that you should give her some chores around the house. Think of say 5 different things she can do around the house to help you (i.e. setting the table, clearing the table, laundry, cleaning the toilets, emptying the bins) and ask to pick 2, that way she might feel she has some say in this. That's what we did with our kids. We deliberately included some "horrible" options so that things like emptying the bins didn't feel so bad after all.
Maybe your dad could talk to her about how she's feeling? Some kids find it easier to talk to anybody but their parents if you see what I mean. My daughter does anyway, she loves spending time with me, but doesn't really talk with me about how she feels, which frustrates me no end. She is very much like her father that way .

I was head of year for seven years at a secondary school. I will never forget a mum who came to see me at her wits end with her year 10 daughter who was a gobby spoiled madam.

" But Miss R, All I ask her to do is come to school and work hard. She wants for nothing, I do everything else for her, I get her uniform out for her every morning and lay it out on her bed for her. I do all her washing, all she has to do is leave it outside her room for me to collect but she doesn't even do that."

After picking my chin off the floor I suggested in no uncertain terms that she STOP doing any washing and show her daughter where the washing machine was!! This girl was almost 16 and NEVER used the washing machine!!!!!!!

I think you should get her doing some chores!!

Ok well today is a new day, have had a long chat with her and laid down the law, what is and isn't acceptable etc.

More - she has been at home with me since May and we do loads of lovely stuff together. This is part of the problem, if we are doing one thing for/that interests her she is a joy. The minute it isn't all about her she makes life hell!

Even to the point of having to push past to get through doors first? What is tat about?! I thought that was a dog thing....

Stop spoiling her dont indulge her tantrums either give her some responsibility for her behaviour praise the positive but dont over praise , It will take time and patience to change and help her behaviour but she will change if you stick to your system,

' she has been at home with me since May and we do loads of lovely stuff together.'

Why hasn't she been in school?

I think tackle one thing at a time. So, say you decided to focus on her listening/manners, let other things (forgetfulness, schoolwork, messiness etc) slide a bit or at least play it down. Else they just lump it all together as mum whingeing and they switch off.

She is obviously capable of listening because you have described lovely times when you've had nice talks and she's responded positively. So the trick is to use what worked during those times which is probably a calm environment and voice, and no hurrying.

Once she's in a pattern of listening/answering politely, you could start on the next goal of say school work.

Personally I don't use rewards or punishments but rather think of it as continual training and that behaviour has to be acceptable whether or not it is going to be acknowledged.