AIBU for considering lying about working an extra hour so i can claim WTC?

[Lowla]

Name change as i don't want to be forever frowned upon on here...

Job hunting is not going well. Almost everything requires me to be fully flexible, which is just not feasable due to childcare issues. Either that or i need to be able to work at 6am in the morning or up until 8pm at night, again, not feasible for childcare reasons.

An employer has just got back to me regarding an old application i made to her for cleaning.

It's only 15 hours but is the same shifts each week, thus making childcare easier.

However, i won't be able to afford childcare unless i work at least 16 hours and get WTC.

If i work 15 hours, i'll still need to claim IS and pay for transport, childcare from my benefit - and also only be allowed to keep £20 of my wages. This would just about cover the transport.

AIBU to lie about working an extra hour (employer has said there's no option to get an extra hour in this role) until u can find another cleaning job for an hour a week?

I probably already know the answer. But i'm desperate.

I'd phone tax credits and explain your predicament and run some of the.suggestions past them.

Thanks for the suggestions. I search my council's website every morning whilst jobhunting but nothing comes up except professional posts. There's a job every now and then for a litter picker, but it's only 14 hours a week, putting me in the same position as i am now. There's also occassionally cleaning ones but again they're around 14hrs per week and say i must be flexible between 8-5 Mon - Fri.

I need a job that is the same shifts each week in order to get childcare sorted. i.e. i can't afford to pay for breakfast clubs and after school clubs 5 days a week when i'll only have to work 2 days iyswim? All my wages would go on childcare.

I've said to my dad i'd do anything in the office he needs - cleaning, answering calls etc, but he already has people for all that, and is again reluctant to get involved in tax credits etc as he doesn't understand.

It's not just 16 hour jobs i'm applying for. I'm applying for everything that has consistent shifts. I'm constantly applying for 9-5 jobs but never seem to get them. i think it's because i've been out of work for so long (2 years).

Childminding requires a lot of start up costs which i don't have. And i also live in a fifth floor flat with no elavator. I doubt anyone would want me to mind their child when there's lots of other childminders in the area who live in houses with gardens etc.

I'm just fed up. I have a degree in a field where there's no jobs. In order to apply for basic jobs i have to lie through my back teeth about my qualifications so they don't think i'm overqualified. And then at interviews i get asked why there's a gap of 4 years in my employment (when i was at uni), and i get stumped.

I had an interview with my lone parent advisor last week. She's utter crap. Telling me about jobs that run on til 10pm etc.

employment levels are lowering because more and more people are doing part time work as there are less jobs around and the gov wont pay to help as many of these arent enough hours to be considered "enough".

its utter shite.

I dont know what to say, do what you need to.

Oh lowla it sounds shit.

I have to give this cleaning lady a decision by tomorrow. Think it's going to have to be a no for now then, without going down the 'illegal' route.

She is refusing to give me anything over 15 hours. She said it would get her in trouble. Something about insurance

please give tax credits a phone.

I'm really sorry OP but this is fraudulent to say the very least and to ask your father to cook the books is a no no. MummytoKatie I'm quite sure she would need to declare this to HMRC and then tax would need to be paid on the earnings and also this would put her on self assessment which is a nightmare to get off.

If you are self employed and claim WTC you just estimate your hours, no one asks for proof. For self-employed people whose hours might vary each week they'd be mad to religiously tally up hours each week and ring WTC each week to get claim adjusted - you just declare an average hours worked. In the larger scheme of things 15 or 16 hours is neither here nor there. It's a stupid stupid system which is rigged against those in the OP's position as well as anyone in variable employment or self employment.

OP, you could set yourself up as self employed and start a business ebaying things. If you spent 2 hours a week doing it, regardless of whether you made much of a profit, you'd push yourself over the WTC limit. You'd have the extra yearly admin of administrating a SE tax return but you might be able to suck that up.

"I had an interview with my lone parent advisor last week. She's utter crap."

They're supposed to run through scenarios with you and help you. So that makes me a bit tbh. I'm so sorry.

To find the support staff jobs in schools from my Council website, is a bit of a faff. It's not with the other council jobs. But you sound like you're doing all the right things. I'm sorry. It is hard trying to return to work. I've been unemployed for 5 years and am finding getting interviews hard but I'm doing voluntary work in the meantime to build up recent experience. Sorry. I don't know what else to suggest.

Quodlibet idea sounds good if that is allowed. You might even get a second cleaning job once the first is on your cv and not need the business for long.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Sorry if i'm coming across ungrateful. I'm just a moody mare today.

OP, you could set yourself up as self employed and start a business ebaying things. If you spent 2 hours a week doing it, regardless of whether you made much of a profit, you'd push yourself over the WTC limit. You'd have the extra yearly admin of administrating a SE tax return but you might be able to suck that up.

This really gives me hope.

I think i'd actually be pretty much the same claiming WTC as i would by claiming IS. i don't claim free school meals or unifrom grants or anything so i wouldnt be missing out on this. And i'm in Scotland so get free prescriptions anyway. But would i be able to claim WTC by ebaying 16hrs a week even if i don't make much or any profit?

I'd be able to do it around school time so no need for childcare either. Sounds a bit too good to be true now i think about it though.

I just want to get off income support. I hate. I hate the horrible looks i get off my neighbours when i return from the school run each morning. I hate them thinking i'm just a lazy bum. I'm just bored and fed up. Why is getting a job so darn hard for parents?

I know how u feel & i know a few people in our shoes. One of my friends is a cleaner & they are set 5-8 mon -fri theres no shifting the company/employer on the extra hour because if they did it for one they would need to do it for everyone else.

School jobs are ideal for parents with school age children however they are so rare & hard to get because a lot of parents want the jobs.

Please dont lie as ul get found out in the end & u will be worse off than you are now.

Do not get me started on lone parent advisors & jobcentre staff. My 8 year old could do a better job than them.

Quodlibet
WRONG
In fact to EVERYBODY who says they do not check your hours
WRONG
WRONG
WRONG

From 6th April Next year, HMRC are switching across to a "Real Time Information" system in advance of the Universal credit a year later.
Employers will be forced to submit wages and HOURS for every pay period on time every time or face huge fines

and self employed people earning under the Class 4 NI limit will no longer be entitled to tax credits regardless of how many or few hours they work.

READ the HMRC site folks

I don't see why it would not be ok to do that. Lots of businesses don't make much money in the first year or two after start up. I think though that the WTC are closing a loophole by making it a requirement that your business earns you at least the minimum wage for each hrt claimed for WTC purposes, but you'd need to check with them. But by that reckoning you need to start a business which brings in about £15/wk for a couple of hours. Surely there are ways to do that with eBay?

say you baby sit an hour a week

OP, in your shoes, I would seriously consider taking the 15 hour job and then topping up your hours via self-employment. I take TalkinPeace2's point about the Universal credit, but if that doesn't come in to force until next April, you have a window of opportunity to get yourself into employment/ your own business.

As far as I can see from the HMRC website, adding self-emplyment hours could be an option, as long as you do it properly. For e.g., even if you didn't manage to sell much on eBay, the time you (genuinely) spend on things like marketing counts. See here:

www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/start/claiming/income-hours/work-out-hours.htm

Marketing could be something as simple as setting up a blog and a Twitter feed and plugging your wares there. I would call HMRC tomorrow and find out if this would satisfy them for WTC hours, and anything else they need you to do.

Don't despair! With any luck, you could grow your self-employment and eventually have that as your main source of income. What's you degree in? Could you work form home supplying things like copyediting for e.g.?

OP I don't think you should eBay 16 hours a week, just 1-2.

I have every sympathy for the OP in this situation. The way the lowest paid in this country are required to evidence every bloody hour they work for measly low wages so that the state can subsidise them/penalise them appropriately and often at the same time, with no mercy shown for those who like the OP end up against the wall not able to take a job and work because they can't negotiate the labyrinth of benefits, whilst at the other end of the spectrum the richest employ tax consultants who effectively allow them to choose how much income shows up as taxable makes me really really sick.

i would say give tax credits a call and discuss the situation with them.

I think, as others have said, they take average hours worked anyway so you may be okay to claim 16 hours rather than 15 hours.

There are some terrible comments on this thread though, MrBojangles stands out as the worst but I wonder if he or she is actually just shit stirring so probably best to ignore.

I personally do not see OP as a cheat or thief for considering adding an extra hours work to their claim.

I would also consider it, if in the same situation and anyone who says they wouldn't is lying or a saint imo.

OP talk to tax credits, they may actually be more helpful and reasonable than some ignoramuses on this thread.

I would absolutely 100% in your shoes register as self employed and make sure you have an hour's self employed work per week.

I know plenty of people who entirely legitimately do this - they take what ever fixed 'proper job' hours they can get then are self employed cleaning/ gardening/ selling stuff on ebay/ babysitting anything else they can think of both to try to up their income and to make sure they are safely over the 16 hours limit.

Of course if you are self employed it is up to you what rate you charge - you don't have to make the minimum wage - which may help you get extra jobs.

If you earn below a certain amount per year (can't remember amount) you always used to be able to apply to be exempt from the weekly NI charge for being self employed. The tax office were always very helpful whenever I called about self employed stuff, definitely ring and chat to them.

But remember that despite the helpful points from Takver Willnever and badbride remember that HMRC are really really clamping down on what they have termed 'false self employment'
Unless you are making at least the national minimum hourly rate they will downgrade your hours until you do
they do NOT want tax credit subsidising hobbies any more

and from April next year - which is only a few months away - the restrictions get even more stringent.

Once again OP, good luck and I'm sure due to some excellent advice on here you will be ok.

I very rarely make actual reference to people in posts but in this case.. MrBojangles, what a sad sorry person you are.

You'll have to tell her no. That sucks!

You say that there are Avon ladies etc. about, but what about Phoenix cards - look at www.phoenix-trading.co.uk? They are nice, and very good value. There's someone around here sells them, and she sells to friends, goes to toddler groups etc. Although she turns up at our toddler group with a little bit of stock, mostly people go through the catalogue and pick stuff from that, and she then delivers the orders back to the toddler group. She seems to sell quite a lot at our group, particularly considering how small the group is. I think there's a little bit of capital outlay, but get off MN and look at the website before you dismiss it altogether - it's not stacks, though I realise anything is a lot if you don't have it.

What a crappy situation to be in. I completely sympathise. I had the same problem when I started working in a shop and they only wanted to offer me a 15 hour contract. I managed to beg an extra hour on the contract in the end but otherwise I would have been in the same dilemma as the OP.

Please do resist the temptation to fib about your hours. HMRC will find out one way or the other, plus the stress you'll go through waiting and worrying for the day you get that call from them would be unbearable and so much worse than worrying about your neighbours thinking you're lazy.

Have you properly looked into work from home options like Avon and Bettaware? I know you said there are reps already in your area, but it can't hurt to double check they're not taking on more people anyway. Sorry I don't have any more helpful advice.