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Original poster

to think jackie powell is a STUPID woman

130 replies

somedayma · 20/08/2012 22:10

who seems to have been sucked in by Ian Brady's 'charms'?

just watched the documentary on channel 4. she's so...defensive of Brady.

WHY on earth would you keep a letter in your possession that may reveal the body of one of the victims? WHY?

OP posts:
wordfactory · 21/08/2012 11:28

Because there will be an uproar eighties.

Kabooooom · 21/08/2012 11:30

I believe in the system wordfactory, never said I didn't. But she is now continuing her work for free. She was not hired by the NHS or the hospital. It is unsure as far as I am aware, how she came about to be his advocate.

Why would anyone do that for free? Would you? I understand them doing it and getting paid, as that is their job. But to do it and not get paid?

janey68 · 21/08/2012 11:31

I agree wordfactory.

And although I thought JP came across badly (in contrast to the professionalism of the lawyers and psychiatrists) she WAS aware that the whole letter thing was likely to be a ploy. She even said she wondered whether he told her stuff to 'test' whether she would keep it confidential in her advocate role- which obviously she hasn't as she spoke to police and the program maker.

I do think a lot of this is about C4 trying to whip up a storm, and imply that this 'letter' is a massive deal. The media have jumped on it and are implying that this unknown woman has suddenly announced she holds a letter which proves where KB is buried- and what an evil bitch!- she could have saved Winnie Johnson heartache. In reality, JP has been known to the police for years. Brady is so high profile that NOTHING happens in his life without many people higher up the ladder than JP knowing about it. This 'letter" is clearly just the latest in a long line of game playing by Brady but unfortunately the media have jumped on it to sell newspapers and push up viewing figures. C4 obviously knew that a very 'dry' account of bradys legal battle to transfer to prison would not sound as glamorous as 'shock horror, unknown frumpy woman holds the key to 50 year mystery'.
The truly depressing thing is the number of general public who fall for it

wordfactory · 21/08/2012 11:32

Poice station visitors woork for free.
Prison inspectors work for free.
Mental health advocates work for free.
Educational panelists work for free.

The vast majority of lawyers represting death row prisoners are working for free.

wordfactory · 21/08/2012 11:34

janey the programme originally intended (Brady's tribunal) was scuppered because he now can't get one.

This scoop conveniently saves the day.

CinnabarRed · 21/08/2012 11:37

Wordfactory - I'm in complete agreement with everything you write.

janey68 · 21/08/2012 11:38

Exactly wordfactory! It wouldn't have made for good viewing to say 'well, Brady wanted a tribunal; he's too ill now so it can't happen'. Far more 'exciting' (and convenient) to take the whole thing in a new direction. And let's not forget that Winnie Johnson was in a hospice and it was well documented that she was in the final stages of life....
Makes one very cynical about the timing...

wordfactory · 21/08/2012 11:40

Thing is the orginal programme might have been interesting.
His tribunal to prove he is sane, so he can die.

That's why he agreed to let Powell take part. As his mental health advocate she could provide an insight as to why he was making the application.

Unfortunately for the film makers Brady collapsed and broke his back. He now won't get a tribunal in the forseeable future.

So the film makers turn it into somehting else.

Feenie · 21/08/2012 11:44

The documentary said he can't now be force fed because of his broken vertebrae. Does that mean he will then have his own way and starve himself to death now?

janey68 · 21/08/2012 11:47

Presumably they can feed him directly into the stomach rather than nasal- gastric. I think they meant they just have to change the method.

Feenie · 21/08/2012 11:49

I see. Thanks.

Birdsgottafly · 21/08/2012 11:58

It is unsure as far as I am aware, how she came about to be his advocate.

No it isn't, it just isn't made public and nor should it, as it will never be understood by most of the 'public' why full human rights are awarded to people who commit child murders etc and there is a big lack of understanding and acceptance of Mental Illness.

The role of the advocate is written in law and is taken on by those who look beyond the 'crime' or wrongdoing (in other advocate roles) and focus on the needs on the client,if you cannot you shouldn't be an advocate.

I would not have had language used as was by the documentary makers by a client, Brady included. JP was quite right to react as she did and say outright that "she didn't like the way the he put that and wasn't going to answer his point".

Tbh, there has been questionable decisions over the years about certain parts of the case of finding Keith and someof those decisions have been to placate the public.

Decisions have to be consistant and anything to do with Brady is no longer 'simple', the investigation over this letter certainly wouldn't have been.

FreudianSlipper · 21/08/2012 12:14

sensationalism tv that is all it was

does anyone really believe that after all these years he is going to hand over a letter that may get to the person who he was still able to torment? he has over and over again stated he feels no remorse or guilt and has never shown in anyway that he does

she has a professional obligation he knew that and she was again someone else to manipulate. It is hard to deal with , we want him to feel remorse, we wanted winnie johnson to at last be able to bury her son but this man does not think like we do and we have to remember those working and dealing with him are able to put aside their feelings of what is right and wrong and jsut deal with that person as they are

not something i could ever do i admire those that can

HildaOgden · 21/08/2012 12:16

I find her argument for not revealing it's contents to be flawed.She claims that on grounds of professionalism,she had to protect his privacy (or words to that effect).Yet it's ok to talk on camera...and show other writings of his?.While still acting as his current mental health advocate?At least any othe professional interviewed wasnt currently involved with him.

She is a silly woman whose feeling of self importance at being Bradys only 'confidante' has clouded her judgement.I agree with the poster who said she reminded her of the death-row penpals...only they can understand the man,you know??

I think the best thing to do...with the knowledge and consent of the families...is for the police to issue a statement saying they have found the final remaining body.

And stop that sick pyschopath from getting his jollies at the torture he continues to buzz off :(

Birdsgottafly · 21/08/2012 12:22

I would rather not have a police force that lied, regardless of who it is that they want to 'help'.

This isn't the only case of not knowing what has happened over the death of a child, or where someone is buried.

This is just the most well known case.

The police cannot start to make those decisions and the Home Secretary could never support them to do so, where would the lies from the police end?

HildaOgden · 21/08/2012 12:27

Oh I know Birds,I just really wish they could do it,take some of that control freaks power away from him.

janey68 · 21/08/2012 12:29

Hilda- the police could never knowingly issue a false statement about finding a body. They absolutely cannot join in a cat and mouse game - they have to be above that.

Good posts from birds and freudian.

As I said upthread, the truly depressing thing in all of this is how many of the general public fall for the spin. If you read something in the tabloids or see it on C4 it MUST Be true. And conversely that if you haven't seen something splashed across the media then it can't have happened.

Of course, when you're dealing with the worst people in society like Brady, it's far easier and more comfortable to dismiss them as not worthy of any human rights. The more difficult part is to accept that they do.

Having said that, I still think JP came across very unprofessionally compared to the others involved with Brady, so she hasn't done any favours for those who work in advocacy. She seemed very uncomfortable and ill at ease, unable to look the camera in the eye and just explain her role objectively. She would have been far better off declining to get invoked

janey68 · 21/08/2012 12:30

Whoops involved

FreudianSlipper · 21/08/2012 12:33

was it not written on the envelope not to be opened after his death

i feel the programme was edited to make her look that way. it was quite obvious that this letter weighed heavy on her shoulders what is the right thing to do professionally and what is right morally is not always the same thing

and as for the questioning and twisting of her words by the guy interrogating her achieved nothing. look who she deals with a man that all those who have dealt with say he is an extremely manipulative and intelligent what did they expect her to break down and reveal all that she knows

we can not have laws for nice people and laws for people we feel are evil and who we can not understand the law protects us all

Nancy66 · 21/08/2012 12:44

janey - i don't understand what 'spin' you're talking about here.

Birdsgottafly · 21/08/2012 12:47

Avocates very often do not have a 'professional' air about them, if they did their clients wouldn't accept them.

I have a friend who counselled Peter Sutcliff (the Yorkshire Ripper), this is always difficult as you have to try to ignore all of your prior/preconceived knowledge (and there willbe a lot) about that person and be guided by the person sitting in front of you, now.

You do as much 'work' on yourself as you do on the client.

It hasn't been apprieciated the knowledge and skill base that JP must have, to have been Brady's advocate for so long.

To work in Ashworth, Rampton or Broadmoor, you are questions and analysed as to why you want to be in that environment.

Kabooooom · 21/08/2012 13:12

BTW, I have not read any newspaper articles about this, nor have I seen this documentary. I am going off what I have read on the posts about it on here, and the conversations I have had with relatives who remember way back when it all happened. So that is why I said "As far as I am aware" and never stated anything as fact.

Thank you for clarifying though. I just found it odd that she worked for him for free, thinking she isn't under any obligation to do so and not imagining why anyone would want to. I know I couldn't, but that's just me.

janey68 · 21/08/2012 13:16

The spin I'm talking about is the way this 'letter' has been bigged up by the documentary and various newspapers when the reality- which is that there are have been numerous other incidents is far more mundane. I would bet there have been many many other letters in the past- the only difference being that we didn't read about it in the papers.

Birds - its very true about advocates being more likely to be accepted if they are 'mrs / mr normal' , and indeed a contrast to the other professionals such as lawyers and doctors which the client will be dealing with. FWIW I don't thing JP is stupid. (i have said all along the only stupid thing would be if she revealed something to a tv program which she hadnt previously revealed to the appropriate authorities- now that WOULD be really stupid- but as I say, I very much doubt that's the case) I suspect when she has received info from Brady she's passed it to the relevant authorities, and they have acted or not acted as they see fit. It's just the media that want to sensationalise and demonise her.

However, I DO think it was a real misjudgement to participate in the program, precisely because she comes across very differently to the other professionals involved with Brady. It would have been far better for her to allow her role to be described without her being in the program at all. Huge error of judgement on her part IMO

lisaro · 21/08/2012 13:17

Masters in a relevant field or not, she is massively emotionally unsuited to the position. This should have been picked up on. I can't say I pity her though.

Nancy66 · 21/08/2012 13:20

the documentary makers wouldn't have known about the letter if Jackie P hadn't mentioned it. Seemed pretty obvious to me she was revellin in the attenion.