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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that just because I can't afford to live in the most expensive part of town....

246 replies

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/08/2012 08:19

... I have not been 'socially cleansed' and do not live in a ghetto? Proposal today to sell off expensive social housing and replace with a higher quantity of newly-built, cheaper social housing article here seems to make a lot of sense. Why the emotive language?

OP posts:
EdithWeston · 20/08/2012 08:22

In that case, I've also been socially cleansed, as I couldn't afford some o the villages near here when I moved, or some parts of some towns.

Also, people should perhaps look at the stories of Bosnia or Rwanda before bandying the term 'cleansing'. Mass murder and rape as a tool of war is quite different to management of the housing stock.

BonnieBumble · 20/08/2012 08:27

I agree it could make sense. There shouldn't be a ghetto effect as social housing tends to be built in amongst private developments these days. The report also states that this will only happen when houses become available, it doesn't suggest forcing people out of their homes.

Is it financially viable though? I hear stories of large Victorian homes being owned by the council in London but is that the case elsewhere? I've not come across it before. In theory it is a good plan but I wonder if the figures actually add up.

MorrisZapp · 20/08/2012 08:27

Yup, seems blindingly obvious. Yanbu.

D0oinMeCleanin · 20/08/2012 08:28

I'm not because when they lost a lot of social housing here, private landlords filled the gap, usually with houses in the same area.

There are at least three streets I can name right now that I would not even walk down, let alone live in.

Putting lots of out of work people, all in one area, unfortunately, does ruin the area.

I'm not saying that every single low income or benefits claimant is rough, most are not, but some are and ime, given the chance they will take over the area and drive out the nicer families. One street is that bad the police looked into buying one of the rented properties to turn into a small police station.

It's better to have those kinds of people spread out.

flatpackhamster · 20/08/2012 08:30

D0oinMeCleanig

I'm not saying that every single low income or benefits claimant is rough, most are not, but some are and ime, given the chance they will take over the area and drive out the nicer families. One street is that bad the police looked into buying one of the rented properties to turn into a small police station.

It's better to have those kinds of people spread out.

Better for who? Not the people who have to live in the same road as them, that's for sure.

D0oinMeCleanin · 20/08/2012 08:36

Well, better for everyone. In our town they band together and ruin an area when they are close enough.

When they are not they tend to keep themselves pretty much to themselves.

Building new estates and filling them not only with genuine low income or out of work families and also the kinds of people I am referring to would not be fair for anyone, least of all the genuine families.

mellowcat · 20/08/2012 08:41

I don't like it, I live in a very poor area as it was the only place I could afford to buy. I love living here and the social, economic and cultural diversity is one of the areas greatest assets, however my concern is that the plan could be used by some to create 'nice' areas where only the wealthy can afford to live and that's not good for anyone. I'm not convinced that the money will go into rebuilding new social housing either.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 20/08/2012 08:44

Surely only the wealthy can afford to live in 'nice' areas already, and always have done? Half a mile from our fairly ordinary suburban semis there are a few streets where the properties change hands for several million at a time. It's 'when I win the lottery' stuff, not a realistic ambition for someone on ordinary incomes.

OP posts:
mrsscoob · 20/08/2012 08:56

hmmm sounds ok in theory however call me a cynic but I think this would more likely turn into an excuse for the Tories to sell of more council housing, and try to finish the job they started last time. Whilst using their bog standard excuse to get the publics by-in of it isn't fair if poor people have anything better than anyone else. Confused

SlightlySuperiorPeasant · 20/08/2012 08:59

YANBU, it makes a lot of sense and the woman arguing against it on R4 this morning didn't make a good case. The plan is to buy/build more affordable housign scattered inbetween existing houses rather than create low-cost ghettos. I'm not sure that all of the money made will be re-invested as planned though, it never is is it?

achillea · 20/08/2012 09:01

Policy Exchange is a British conservative think tank based in London. The Daily Telegraph has described it as "the largest, but also the most influential think tank on the right".[1] The New Statesman named it as David Cameron's "favourite think tank",[2] a view shared by the Political Editor of the Evening Standard Joe Murphy, who referred to it as "the intellectual boot camp of the Tory modernisers?".

This is who has come up with this fabulously mind-blowing report. Read between the lines and of course it will be social cleansing, that's exactly what they are doing. They have no idea what they are dealing with and are not on the same planet as real people. Tory thickos really. Nasty but Dim.

AmberLeaf · 20/08/2012 09:03

God. First few posts and already we have;

Social housing = being on benefits.

Lougle · 20/08/2012 09:04
  1. Many existing council/HA tenants are 'hardworking people'.
  2. They are suggesting not only that the current houses are more expensive than the ones they plan to build, but 'better'. This is not just an economic exercise, it's a value-based one.
  3. Areas are more expensive because they offer better transport links, amenities, educational opportunities and jobs. What they are saying is that they would rather those who had social housing were given less opportunities than the 'deserving'.
EdgarOlymPic · 20/08/2012 09:11

the thing they are objecting to is already the case - whether you like it or not,

house prices serve to organise people by income bracket.

Birdsgottafly · 20/08/2012 09:13

It is this statement that bothers me and i think sums up the real thoughts on of the think tank/government.

"Social housing tenants deserve a roof over their heads - but not one better than most people can afford, particularly as expensive social housing means less social housing and so longer waiting lists for most people in need."

It is a shame that the 'best' council houses were the one's sold off, as there should be social housng available in good areas and the properties should be of a high building/decorative standard.

This is once again reversing the original plan to have tenants from different back grounds and employment.

Doin has made the assumption, as others automatically do, that HA tenents are unemployed. The problem is that there is a mismanagement of housing stock in some areas.

When Liverpool sold off it's housing stock 'in need of repair', it was supposed to be so people had the chance to own their own home, in truth it went to the builder friends of Councilors and made them all a fortune, the rents of these properties are now out of the reach of anyone that is on a low/medium wage and they will not take even disabled tenants.

This will make someone a lot of money, but you can bet that it won't do much for providing extra homes that people want to live in.

Mrsjay · 20/08/2012 09:15

It used to be called regeniration (sp) socially cleansed sound like they are getting rid of the 'dirt' what a horrible term to use, near where I live they have regenirated and the houses are lovely. Just because people cant afford million pound houses doesnt mean they are any less of a person ,

limitedperiodonly · 20/08/2012 09:15

It's never a good idea when staff needed to work in schools, hospitals, GP surgeries, emergency services etc are priced out of the housing market or are highly-paid, as many of the most senior staff are, but prefer to take their money and buy a house in a part of the country where they get more house for their money, access to better state schools, less-crowded GPs, dentists, an easier and cheaper commute etc.

That impoverishes rich cities in many ways

We could solve that with regional pay in the NHS, which something else this govt is proposing. That makes me uneasy, but if someone wants to make an argument for it that shows that it doesn't result in impoverished public services, I'm happy to listen.

Or we could just take the view that if people are rich enough to live in Westminster, for instance, they won't need public services so it doesn't matter.

Some people don't. They can afford to flit between their houses in chi-chi areas of cities around the world. Even in that case, in some of those cities it's very dangerous to step outside areas without private security patrols.

But for most people living in the rich parts of the country it's a fantasy.

And I don't want that to happen to London even if I was super rich.

Or we could build carry on building affordable homes for key workers and tie them more tightly to their jobs if lots of people were shown to be egregiously abusing the system.

expatinscotland · 20/08/2012 09:16

Here we go again! The assumption that everyone in social housing is on benefits and unemployed.

Badvoc · 20/08/2012 09:20

My parents have lived in social housing all their lives...my dad was born in that house.
They have never recieved benefits (other than cb) and have both worked since they were 15.
Why does social housing = benefits claimants??

Badvoc · 20/08/2012 09:22

Perhaps the "best" social housing should go to front line workers...nurses, teachers, policeofficers, doctors etc??

SlightlySuperiorPeasant · 20/08/2012 09:26

Statistics from Shelter:

  • economically inactive: 60 per cent of social housing tenants are economically inactive (31 per cent are retired and 29 per cent are otherwise economically inactive)
  • unemployed: 6 per cent of social housing tenants are unemployed
SerialKipper · 20/08/2012 09:27

"Better" and "more expensive" are being misused in that article. A 1950s council house on a street where property prices have risen is exactly the same as one on road where they haven't.

The houses cost the same to build. They cost the council the same to maintain. They cost the occupant the same to run. They are the same experience to live in. It's not some magical "treat" for the tenants that owners on their street are willing to pay lots for property. So talk of "why do they deserve better housing" is cobblers. It's not better.

But it is affordable.

And we all benefit from the teacher, nurse, refuse collector, shop worker having affordable housing because we use their services, pay their wages through our taxes or trade, and will be the ones paying their housing benefit if their rent goes up.

The only time it makes any sense to sell council housing just because house-prices have risen is when the replacement housing can be built near the jobs eg because of genuine regeneration.

usualsuspect · 20/08/2012 09:28

Why can't people get it into their thick heads, that not all people that live in social housing are rough and on benefits?

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 09:29

It makes sense to me.

As has been pointed out, not all HA/council tennants are unemployed and on benefits, so there is no reason why any new housing areas built for them will turn into ghettos or rough areas that people who don't live there woudo ever want to walk down.

There are already areas that most of us couldn't afford to live in, this will make no difference to that at the same time as doing something to improve the dire housing situation we have.

Mrsjay · 20/08/2012 09:31

of course you get rough areas of but where I live the town is made up social and ex social housing It is a nice area next to a good school blah blah, I really wish people wouldnt tar everybody with the same bloody brush , generations of my familiy lived lived in social housing all worked never in trouble with the police and not rough