AIBU to feel that those that are academically challenged are sometimes forgotten about?

[tittytittyhanghang]

Is it just me that thinks that not all children can be academically clever, going from school to uni to (hopefully) job. I don't mean that some kids are thick, but academics is maybe not their forte iyswim? These kids seem to be forgotten about. I know where i live apprenticeships are like hens teeth. When i was school leaver age if you didn't go to uni or college, then mostly you went and got a job (not likely in current climate) or did an apprenticeship (e.g. joiner/brickie or in a office).

I would say the absolute opposite. FEd colleges are full of vocational courses, there are far fewer academic courses.

There are also apprenticeships nowadays.
Only a small percentage do 'A Levels'

I think it depends on where you are. Where I grew up being academic was regarded as something of a useless novelty.

Apprenticeships need to be encouraged.
We'll always need an Electrician, Plumber and Builder.
I admit my Ds is academic, but there are so many other possibilities out there, and I'd have been happy for him to have done any of these jobs.

I teach in an fe college and don't think there are enough apprenticeships. It's not the best thing for everyone to go to uni which is why the drop out rate on some courses at uni is 66%! but some parents push their kids to uni and it just isn't the best path for them.

My son, who has Aspergers, has never found an apprenticeship where we live (South West). He never got on at College and no help was offered. Connexions were a total waste of time and space.

He has a fairly high IQ, but is 'academically challenged' due to dyslexia and his Aspergers.

All jobs say he must have a Certificate of Competence........but how the fuck does he get one?

He is now in a dead-end job with no prospects, and gets minimum wage.

Heartbreaking.

I disagree. Academically challenged children at school get far more attention and resources heaped on them than the ones who are academic and just get left to get one with it.

There are more award type things that are appropriate for the non academic ones like sports day, badges in extra curricular clubs, after school activities.

When they leave school there seems to be a huge choice of vocational college courses, at least in this area and the colleges round here. Of the five colleges that we could access, only one of them offers more a levels than they do vocational courses, although obviously there are sixth forms for that too.

I hate to say it but quite often those who are more academic whatever that means have parents who support them. There are a substantial amount of university courses for academic students but try and get an apprenticeship- 3 separate interviews, tests and then to be dropped so they don't have to pay the full wage!

Outraged I agree.
Also, there will always be a point when education ends and people have to stand on their own two feet and get a job. This applies to everyone.

Yes but to get a job now involves having some skills. Schools don't seem to teach skills they teach to sats and gcse's. So when the student gets spat out of school with poor interview, it, numeracy and literacy skills there aren't many jobs out there for them anymore.

kitty, when you say only a small percentage do A Levels, do you mean at FE college or in general? I thought more than half of all 16-18 year olds do A levels, what with the New Labour push to get 50% going to university.

This is something I fear for dd1, (9 atm) who has ASD, possible dyslexia and is very very behind academically. I'm hoping she will suddenly "take off" at some point in secondary school in a certain area, be it sports (quite possible), some academia (probably unlikely) or some sort of vocation.

I think there's too much 'one size fits all'.

We are not under a labour government and believe me once the Tories came into power ensuring 50% of 16-19 year olds to uni was not in their plan!
They have cut vocational courses and this year restricted places at uni for students not achieving A stars.
So if your child is not an A star pupil already their options are limited. The conservative ideal is that the very academic go to university and the less so get apprenticeships and hopefully this will entice you to start your own business.
Because its that easy starting a business at the moment isn't it she said sarcastically.

I don't know much about older teenagers but my challenge as a teacher of 7-13 year olds is the 'average' child.

It's easy to cater for those for additional needs at either end of the spectrum with support and challenge work. There is a lot of emphasis on both extremes in terms of additional resources, funding, training, clubs, lessons and extra adult support.

But those children who just quietly get on with it and achieve exactly what the should, no more, no less - those are the ones I need to remind myself to pay enough attention to.

I know we're not under a labour government, leena. But kitty said only a small percentage of people do A Levels, and I didn't think the proportion had dropped so very sharply in just a couple of years?

No it probably hasn't dropped but this year is where we see the difference. Universities have increased fees, plus they have been told they can take as many A star students as they like without incurring a fine. For less academic students universities will be fined if they take over the allotted number. So you see what will start happening. They have increased the Ucas tarif points for courses also this year.

as someone who works in a school environment I cannot tell you how frustrating it is that badly behaved kids (and I dont mean those with special needs) and kids who don't attend, can't be bothered etc, get SO much time, money and staff compared to the academic ones who are pretty much left to it. We are under strict orders on who to spend our time on. And then these kids leave school and do F all with the 'skills' we supposedly taught them.

and btw, there are loads of jobs out there, including apprenticeships. Unfortunately they aren't advetised properly thanks to our lovely JC+, government etc.

I think the plan to force children to stay at school until 18 is stupid. Frankly post 16 education is often throwing good money after bad for those who do not want to be there. I feel that children would be better to leave school at 16 and have opportunties through evening classes to catch when they are a bit more mature.

A big problem for low ablity people is that competition for menial jobs is far more fierce than in the post. Many employers would rather take on a Pole with limited English (but some intelligence) than an English person with learning difficulties.

There was a time when there were not many universities - 50 years ago perhaps. Yes, that sounds like a long time ago but you have to look at our handwriting and spelling, punctuation etc and you will know when and where we were educated. Having said that, I will also include those who attended secondary modern schools. Teaching then was different and those pupils could also spell, punctuate and construct a sentence.

A student's parents could apply for a grant towards financing the course at university but it was not necessary to have a degree to get a good job in those days. (I've been there). Some parents of academic children did not 'believe' in universities because they had got jobs themselves at age 14 and paid their way in life. They did not realise what universities could bring to their children because they had no conception of what universities really were.

Several of my friends attended grammar schools (Tiffins, Mitcham Girls' Grammar, Wimbledon High etc) and achieved enough to go to work straightaway in jobs that required just a brain and paid a decent amount of money. My parents could not believe the amount that I was contributing towards housekeeping expenses. We all went on to succeed in well paid jobs and, now in our 60s and 70s, we have a good background and could still work if we wanted to and were accepted in today's business society. It's such a pity that life is not like that any more because we have too many universities and (let's face it) sub-universities.

One of my friends left a secondary modern school and went on to be a competent hairdresser. She is still working (nearly 70) because she likes it but also because her clients like to have her.

Yes, there's too much one size fits all. All pupils are different (they are not 'students' until they are at college or university). When we had the 11+ examination, some passed and went on to other schools and some 'failed' but had another chance at 13 to change schools with a 13+ examination. It was not an unfair system because those who did not attend grammar school with an academic ethos, attended a secondary modern or technical school (yes there was another choice) and could succeed in other ways. I remember a prefect telling me that she was going to be a stenographer (shorthand typist). To work in an office in those days was a plus point. I admired her.

Bring those days back. My mother in law left school at 14 (in classes of 50+) and one could not fault her spelling, punctuiation and sentence construction.

YABU. There is a huge amount of money being ploughed into apprenticeships. Vocational courses are on the rise and there is still funding for these.

The (target for) 50% going to University would not be made up entirely of A Level students as you will be aware.
I have tried to find stats for 2011 but guess what?! No luck so far! I want to know the actual percentage of 16-19 out of all 16-19 year olds in the UK. Not out of the 16-19 year olds at one college!

Shouldn't we be trying to make sure kids come out of school with good literacy, numeracy and it skills rather than concerning ourselves with low paid apprenticeships for those who don't?
You should have these skills no matter what job you want, they should be basics for all. I don't call that academic, either, it's a minimum standard for all but the serious learning difficulties.

The government is happy to tell is the % in 'education or training'. Though they don't like to be too specific do they?