to think that as an experienced midwife I should earn more than a window cleaner?

[whatinthewhatnow]

My mum's window cleaner charges £18 for an hour's work. I get £17. Does society really value window cleaners more than midwives?

In no way showing off, and this rarely happens, but I did dramatically save a teeny life on wednesday. It was really fricking scary. I work so hard, my women seem to really like me and I really do try so hard for them. I feel totally undervalued and stressed and I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth it, for £17 a bloody hour. FFS. .

Well you thought nurses and midwives were the same so flinging words around like ignorance in relation to the profession doesn't really mean much coming from you tbh.

Dp has been self emplyed for 13 years and hasn't once hired an accountant

Moominsarescary, OK, but somebody has to do 'his books'? all I'm trying to say here is that somebody who is self-employed has to sort things out themselves whereas somebody in an NHS job has it all done for them.

BenedictsCumberbitch. They are interchangeable in the respect that they are jobs that have become degree-only in the past few years, thus, newly-qualified nurses/midwives walk about thinking they are worth more pay than they really are. While being, ironically, more ignorant than nurses/midwives were in the past where, y'know' actual nursing skills were taught that didn't involve 'soft' science like sociology and other irrelevancies to the job.

They are no more worth any more pay than they currently get.
That is market forces.

Window cleaners 'save' lives-they could notice a dangerously- positioned window pane; binmen 'save' lives-they carry away waste that would otherwise be a health hazard. Everybody does their bit.

Midwives get paid what they do because that is how much value is placed upon their job.

Nope noone has ever done his books, Although he works for sub contractors in construction at the moment so his tax is now taken out before he receives his pay.

my grandad had an accountant when he was se, but the cost was minimal compared to what he was able to claim back.

Or could it be that nursing and midwifery is predominately a female role that is undervalued by society?

However regardless of that, the sweeping statement that 'most nurses aren't that bright' is inaccurate, insulting and stupid.

Actually, shecot, in the case of nurses and midwives, it's nothing to do with market forces, as those jobs are mostly based in the public sector. It's really about how much governments, and the people who elect them, are prepared to pay. There is a big shortage of midwives in this country at the moment - if market forces applied, then we'd be paying more to fill the vacancies.

shecot what are you talking about? Our cohort qualified a year ago. Of course the teach actual nursing skills.

Window cleaners may save lives by spotting unsafe window panes however if they don't notice them they will not be held accountable if someone is killed, a nurse or mw can be if things go wrong

can someone explain why hospital midwifery is so skilled?

Perhaps you could first explain why you seem to think it isn't? You do realise that midwives are the lead autonomous practitioner for the vast majority of pregnancies. Even high risk pregnancies the midwife provides the majority of care.

My DH is a window cleaner. Yesterday he earned £250 for one days work. In winter last year he earned £50 in one 6 week period due to rain/weather and car troubles. You got your hourly rate all year I assume OP?

Jesus Christ, does anyone still really believe Nurses (and midwives) should be 'nice' young women washing bedpans and making beds?

Don't know about anyone else, but when someone is injecting me with drugs, running lines into my body, monitoring my heartbeat and the ten thousand other things a Nurse actually does, I want them to be intelligent, well trained and well paid!

Yes, of course, anyone can be trained to give a straightforward jab. What about when it's not straightforward, when it's into a frightened kid with shit veins after months of Chemo? Still want that not-very-bright-nice-girl?

Quick enough to whinge about crap nursing as we are, shouldn't it also be obvious that if we want more and better, we're going to have to pay for the privilege!

And, no, I'm not a Nurse, or in any related profession.

I get that the OP was disingenuous, and I don't agree with her comparison, but some of the posts on here are awful.

Let's do Teachers and Nurses - that's a better match in terms of training time and comparable benefits - and have a straight vote.

Who should earn more?

Mw are trained to pick up on problems during birth, many people are able to have intervention free births due to mw being skilled in handling problems that occure.

Also like nurses they are the ones dealing with the patients, they pick up on problems after the birth and if problems arise with the babies. Their skill and training can prevent serious emergancys arising as they know what to look for.

BenedictsCumberbitch. They are interchangeable in the respect that they are jobs that have become degree-only in the past few years, thus, newly-qualified nurses/midwives walk about thinking they are worth more pay than they really are. While being, ironically, more ignorant than nurses/midwives were in the past where, y'know' actual nursing skills were taught that didn't involve 'soft' science like sociology and other irrelevancies to the job.

They are no more worth any more pay than they currently get.
That is market forces.

WTF? You know, it is attitudes like that towards NQ nurses that cause the horrible bullying and division in nursing.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that nurses don't learn basic nursing skills because they go to Uni? And Sociology is not irrelevant to nursing in this current climate, considering the amount of "social cases" nurses now have to deal with-and btw it is only a very small section of the course.

ginny I think that's something lots of people don't realise, I don't know about mw but nurses now do many of the jobs that in the past were done by doctors, that along with all the paper work is one of the reasons you don't see them dealing with bedpans, making tea and tiding beds anymore. It has nothing to do with them feeling entitled because they have a degree

Shecot-if you don't want to be treated by the NHS-go fucking private then. Oh wait, they get trained at the same Unis.

And yeah, nurses who get Band 5 wages at just over 21k starting salary , when they have atients lives in their hands from Day one is frankly shocking.

No point feeding trolls, it encourages them.

Hiding thread now.

I've spent quite a lot of the last two years as a patient on the labour ward and maternity wards, they have pushed to get me the treatment I've needed, recognised the signs when things have been going wrong and saved ds3s life.

The mw sat with me during the early birth of ds4 at 20 weeks, made sure I understood what would happen and that I was prepared. It was down to the skill of the mw that I didn't have to go to theatre to have the placenta removed.

I'm going in tomorrow to have a procedure, I'm just under 14 weeks pregnant. I wouldn't want just anyone in charge of my care.

Moomin - I know, and it drives me nuts when people whinge about it. I have Nurses, both new and old, in my family and friends, and none of them think they're 'above' the basics - they just don't have the time.

Too, I just don't think most people realize how much medicine has changed in the last half-century. It's an utterly different role now, so much more technical skill.

I actually think there's a massive void in the structure of most wards now, which used to be filled by the senior student nurses. The jump between auxilliary and RN is too great. I know some wards have HCA's, but not enough and it's not the same thing, anyway.

The solution to a lot of the common gripes is more Nurse and more 'mid-level' whatever-they-want-to-be-called's. But that would cost, so, you know....

Is £17ph not a lot then?

I agree that a lot of the work we as midwives and also nurses do now is stuff that would commonly in the past have been done by doctors, tbh an experienced nurse or midwife has more knowledge in their area than most SHO's and first level reg's. But that's rarely acknowledged and often hotly contested by those outside the NHS. But it's true. Especially at this time of year. I wouldn't have a baby during the first week or two in august for love nor money...

For the first year of our training when we were on placement we spent the time with the hca's making beds, emptying catheters washing and feeding patients. I can't believe people don't think they teach the basics anymore.

If they pay you more they would have to put up taxes which you would pay, forget the middle man and pay yourself a patties out of your wages