DB's wedding and family relationships - warning long!

[olympicsrock]

AIBU to not look forward to DB's wedding and even consider not going?
Background:
My DB's wife died after a brave fight against an illlness 3 years ago. She was a wonderful person who i loved and they had 2 young children. Shortly afterwards, DB met someone else. They became serious very quickly, she moved into his house with her children 18 months ago. I don't know her very well as initially i was upset that DB had moved on so quickly and publicly and not considered the feelings of his late DW's family. Over the last year, despite mixed feelings about DB's new partner and their relationship i have made an effort to become friends and spend time with her as it was obvious that my DB was serious about their future together.

My parents split up 8 years ago after my F had an affair with a 'friend' of my parents "OW" who he lives with now. He treated my DM very badly over several years , it came out that he had several affairs and done other horrible things during their marriage. There was an acrimonious divorce and he behaved very badly towards me too. I decided not to have a relationship with him. He was not invited to our wedding and has not met DS 1year. My DB and DS still have a relationship with our F which is their choice. In the last 6 years i have seen F twice, at DSis wedding and at late SIL's funeral. I have always said i will not go to any event e.g. christenings where F will be. These 2 events were very stressful for me as F who is very thick skinned kept trying to talk to me despite me keeping my distance.

Now DB and his DP have got engaged. DB suggested a small wedding abroad but his DP wants a big wedding with all their family around them. DB and his DP have stayed with F and OW. DP (bride) thinks that my DM should be able to move on and spend time with F and OW, she does not 'get' our family. DM has done masses of childcare for them and been kind / generous to DP.

The problem: this wedding is going to be a complete minefield. Despite my slightly mixed feelings, i do want to support DB at his wedding and welcome his DP into the family - he deserves to be happy. But DB has form for being really tactless - i'm sure he will invite both DM and F and probably OW too. In the past F has refused to attend events if OW is not invited . DM will attend if F is invited but will be very upset all day. DM would not attend if OW was there. I'm dreading the whole thing, considering a boycott if OW is invited and only attending for a short time without dS if F is going.

Do you not think as well, that a big wedding would be easier than a small one to cope with this family dynamic?

If they go small, assuming they don't just get married with 2 witnesses, then at least they would invite both sets of parents, both sets of siblings, her DCs and a few close friends. In that situation, your StepMother should also be invited, but your mum would hten have to deal with her in a group of only 20 or so people, in a wedding of 150 people, she'll be 'diluted' more, there will be more people around. It could easily be that your DB and DP have a large group of people they have to invite, we went as small as we could and had 75 people - and that involved not inviting some cousins, and was before most of our friends had DCs (with DCs now, the same group would be at least 20 more...).

It's increadibly rude to say you don't want your father's wife invited if your DB gets on with her. Your mum coped for your sister's wedding, she knows your DB has a good relationship with his father and new wife, so why wouldn't the step-mum be invited? Your DB doesn't want to take sides. Stop trying to make him because you have.

Don't mind if i do - i don't think you are being fair saying that i'm the only one to "make a fuss".

DSis previously was very angry with F too and did not invite him to her wedding until the week before. As i was Dsis bridesmaid, i just got on with it and tried to stay away from F. DM who paid for the wedding had to watch F give the bride away. DSis asked DM to stay out ALL of the photos at the church so that F could have prints without DM in. He did not attend the reception. DM had a horrible day and it was very awkward for all the family and friends who knew how badly F had behaved and pretty universally avoid F now.

I did not make a fuss at late SIL's funeral either just went. I have however said that i will not go to any other events this is MY choice and i do actually think my siblings should show loyalty to our mother who has been an amazing parent rather than our bullying cheating father. DB works for F hence his lack of loyalty!

I haven't ever previous dictated who is invited but made it clear that i won't attend if he does. This was important as DSis had asked me to be DNiece's godmother. In this situation she did have a choice as i do.

It's up to your db and his dp if they invite OW or not. There is no real right or wrong, but if they have a relationship with her it would be mean not to invite her.

Like you say, your Dad is the one to blame, so if they are inviting him then there's no reason not to invite her. It's about your db and his wife, not your Mum. It's up to your mum how she chooses to handle the situation, but your db shouldn't be encouraged to force his DF to exclude his DP based on ow someone who is not the bride or groom is going to feel.

Why was your mum left out of ALL the photos?

Why did your DSis go from not inviting your father one week to inviting him and asking your DM to stay out of all the photos the next?

I still think that saying you won't go to events he is at ever is cutting off your nose to spite your face. He was an arsehole and probably still is. Believe me when I say that I have been at various family events with arseholes. As I say, I dealt with and still deal with my ExH at events. It is not his friends' and families' fault he is a twunt to me. TBF he is quite nice to them.

PooPoo - At the church DSis hissed to mum to stay out of the photos as F was not able to come to the reception and wanted photos without mum to put on his wall.(Reception was at mum's house, paid for by mum). F was a last minute addition to the wedding despite DM continually saying to DSis that she must do as she wanted as it was her wedding. DSis planned to have more photos later in the day but then it bucked down with rain and they never happened.

Don't mind if i do - bit much to say "it's INCREDIBLY RUDE not to want fathers wife (actually they're not married he doesn't believe in the sanctity of it!!) not to be invited. Why should i want a woman who pretended to be a friend to my family, asking if she could stay with my parents, having dinner at their house, laughing at my mother behind her back during the affair, to be invited to a family wedding.

I don't think you should talk to your db about his guest list it's his wedding and, as people are touchy about weddings at the best of times, I can't see that conversation going well.

I think you need to wait until you know who is going and act then but you can only decide what to do for your family you can't then start telling people they should/nt go too.

You think your siblings should take your mum's side and shun your dad but your brother doesn't think that maybe he thinks 8 years as a long time and people should live and let live.

It is very tricky.

Mrs Terry P - i just wouldn't enjoy events that he is at - i've spent 8 years persuading a thick skinned person that i don't want him in my life. I love my nieces and nephews, see them lots and spoil them. I doubt they'll miss me at childrens parties , christenings but a siblings wedding is different.
I admire the way you cope with seeing your exH.

Gosh! How humiliating that must have been for your mum! Does your sis feel bad about it? Apologised?

Why should I want a woman who pretended .......

It's not about what you want. It's not your wedding. Nor is it your Mums wedding.

It's about your DB and his DP, and all of you should be doing your best to go along with what they want. That includes you, your sister, and both of your parents and our DFs DP.

The only person that deserves to be excluded is the one who is thinking of themselves before they are thinking of the bride and groom.

PooPoo, Dsis does feel bad and has apologised to mum but she'll always have the memory of standing in tears at her daughters wedding .You can see why even the mention of another wedding brings me out in a cold sweat!

It is absolutely not your place to tell or even advise your brother and his partner who they can or can't invite to their wedding. The only choice you get is to accept or decline any invitation, as does anyone else.

I do know how hard it can be, I don't have a relationship with my father anymore, but he and I both attended my sibling's weddings. Can't say I didn't find it stressful, but I wouldn't have dreamed of asking either of them not to invite their own father.

OutrageatthepriceofFreddos - funnily enough the only person who will think of themselves before the bride and groom is F, who won't give a shit how anyone else feels. The rest of us will go to support DB and his bride but not have a great day.

As said further up the thread; your only concern is whether you'll be attending or not. You talk of your SIL's family but do you actually know whether your brother has had conversations with them or not? It's really none of your business - your SIL was HIS wife and you won't have been privvy to all that went on after her death.

As far as your father is concerned, I'm sure you can cut him dead at the wedding without making a fuss if you want to. Just walk away, saying "Excuse me, won't you?". Do that two or ten times and he'll get the message. It doesn't need to be loud or attention-seeking. Your mother will sort herself out on the day as she'll want to be there. You can be supportive of her and make it easier - that's within your gift.

Please don't tell your brother to do anything - it is HIS wedding and that of his partner. You say you want to welcome her, well do that. You don't have an automatic right to voice an opinion on the arrangements; everybody concerned is an adult and they should know how to behave.

Weddings can be horribly stressful for many people but where there really is no personal impact to you, where something doesn't' affect you directly - and legitimately - there's no need to manufacture the stress.

It's one day... and then it's over.

Can't someone make it clear to your df and ow to not talk to you and dm?

You will have whatever sort of day you make it. Yes, there may be difficulties, but how you handle those is up to you.

If your F is the only one who is likely to only thnk abut himself, then the rest of you, your mum and sister, can all support each other.

These things can be hard, but if all of you put your db and his future wife's happiness at the top of your list of priorities, there is no reason why you shouldn't have a good day. I thnk you need to reassure your brother and his fiancé that you will be there to support them and will do whatever you can to make sure they have a happy and stress free day. They are probably more worried about it than you are, especially because it will mean more to them than it ever will to you.

'i do actually think my siblings should show loyalty to our mother who has been an amazing parent rather than our bullying cheating father. DB works for F hence his lack of loyalty!'

well I do think you shouldn't judge your siblings like this, and that your main priority should be supporting your mum and accepting your brother's wishes at his own wedding. I'm sure your mother would rather you and your siblings put your differences aside for the day - it will be hard enough for her if she goes without her picking up on your hostility to your brother.

FWIW my best friend's (lying cheating) dad got remarried, and although the friend's mum didn't want her children to go to the dad's wedding to the OW, 3 out of 5 went as they felt no matter what, he was still their dad. The ones that didn't go respected the feelings of those who did.

I sympathise with you as it must all be very stressful and difficult - but I think if your mum is saying she won't go if the OW does, maybe just show support for your mum by encouraging her to go and spend the wedding by her side. If your mum really really won't go, then maybe just go to the vows bit and spend the rest of the day with your mum.

Greeneyes,
you're probably right and given you've been in my place know how it is. I haven't yet even discussed it with my brother yet just mulling it over. My general philosophy is that he's a grown man and makes his own decisions (and i leave him to it). The problem is that i can just see how this is all going to pan out and i'm dreading the fall-out.
I know that people say it is all about the bride and groom but i do think in extreme situations such as ours playing happy families is not always the best option.
Best to say nothing then and hope that they elope!

I think you are being a little unfair to feel uncomfortable about your DB moving on so quickly and choosing a big wedding. (Though you are right that it would have been much more tactful to inform his late wife's family before Facebook.)

My close friend's wife died. He met someone a year later and they married two years later. It was a big wedding. His late wife's family were invited. His view was that happiness can be so short, he expected to have forever with his first wife and didn't, so wanted to celebrate his second marriage with real gusto as life can be short. He was choosing a big wedding because he never wanted to do anything half-arsed again when life can snatch it all away (his words).

People react in different ways to a death and while I think it would take a long time for me to get over DH dying, who knows how I would feel?

As for your F, this is a very common issue at weddings. My own dad was a complete cock to my mum. He was vile. She hates him. But he came with his partner to my wedding and she concentrated on other people.

I made sure she felt very included and maybe you could say to your DB or his wife to be: "Could you get mum really involved with X or Y to take her mind off OW being there?"

Or you could make sure you are on hand to keep your mum occupied at the wedding. Take her for beauty treatments so she feels confident about seeing OW. My bridesmaids did that for me with my DM in case she ever felt anxious. As it turned out, she had a brilliant time and says it was one of the best days of her life.

GIraffes, I think your solution is the right one. I'm not hostile to my bro btw. We have long ago agreed to differ in our approaches to F and do our own thing.
The question really is where does living your life with a set of values and morals blend into being judgemental. I can't accept lying, cheating and bullying your spouse for 30 years so i choose not to have that person in my life. He wasn't a good father either, and funnily enough as a child and teenager i was the closest to him and was very let down when this all happened. Loyalty to my friends and family and kindness are key qualities for me. I find it difficult to accept that others (my siblings)are more accepting of this behaviour just because we only have one dad.

Do what's right by your own moral compass then, OP, but you will only ever have control of yours and nobody elses. You'll have to accept that, difficult as it undoubtedly is. I think that if you can try to put it out of your mind as much as possible, it won't be as bad a day as you are maybe anticipating?

It sounds to me like your mother and father's issues were over a long time ago. Your mother will need to get over it and hold her head high, as will you.

Lyingwitch, yes i do know for sure that DB did not tell SIL's family about the engagement. Someone saw it on Facebook, and they phoned my DM up to see if it was true and were upset about the lack of consideration for their feelings.

GIraffes, I think your solution is the right one. I'm not hostile to my bro btw. We have long ago agreed to differ in our approaches to F and do our own thing.

Sure, just thought when you said his loyalty to your f was because he works for him sounded a bit hostile!

I find it difficult to accept that others (my siblings)are more accepting of this behaviour just because we only have one dad.

well sorry but this is judgemental - you have your own morals and values, and they have theirs. Maybe they also believe in loyalty, but in a different way to you. And maybe they believe in forgiveness in a way that you don't. I think that for your own sake you might find it less stressful and disappointing if you fully accepted that your sibs have a different relationship with, and attitude to, your dad than you. There is no one law or rule that governs how people relate to one another, and tbh it is not up to you or anyone to account for others' consciences. You might think that if you really prize loyalty, then as regards the wedding your primary loyalty is to your mum, and ensuring she has an ok time; your other main loyalty to your db and his df and ensuring they also have an ok and calm time. Let your sibs look after their own values...let he who is without sin and all that!

olympics... I get that, I would imagine that it did come as a shock but perhaps they should have contacted your brother directly - and he should certainly have contacted them. Some people don't have much sensitivity beyond their own feelings. I would imagine that your brother has been in dialogue with SIL's family since then though and I think you'll have to just leave it at that - he has his own 'relationship' with them that of bereaved son-in-law and it's probably best to keep out and not try to second-guess it. FB is the work of the devil, it really is.

Anything you do or say (if you do), will most likely cause stress/trouble that is really unnecessary. You can certainly control who has access to speak to YOU at the wedding though, maybe focus on dealing with that.