To think that sometimes a family business needs to be run as a business?

[ColourMeWithChaos]

Background so as not to drip feed:

DH and me inherited his family's "estate" from his grandfather about 15 years ago when his grandfather died. He was the main beneficiary of the will because he was the only one who took an interest in running the farm, his dad had no intention of quitting his job (a GP) to run the business, DH's brothers were too young and we'd moved into an annexe of the main house 3 years earlier and had been his main carers for those three years (he had Parkinson's).

The business has gone from strength to strength mainly due to DH's ridiculous amount of work on the farming side and I've worked hard on the estate lettings side, making sure all the cottages are inhabitable and let out whether long term or holiday lets and we now have a farm shop on the estate which I also oversee.

This has enable us to become very much a "family business" and we now employ many of DH's family members - one of his brothers and his wife, three of his cousins, a nephew, our son and an uncle and his wife.

This is all well and good because it means we are a very close business but this is what I have to remind DH - we are a business.

Today has been shit truth be told. Three of his family members have completely let me down - losing us a large sum of money (which we really can't afford to do) and potentially losing us a major contract. But according to DH, we cannot discipline them for this because they are "family". This wasn't a mistake but three people failing to do their jobs consistently over a period of time and then attempting to cover it up so it didn't come to light.

If we weren't a family business then I think what they did (basically one person is in charge of maintaining the holiday cottages and failed to repair something I asked them to repair for no obvious reason we can ascertain, this then was not picked up by the person in charge of the lettings who is meant to check all the holiday lets after each let but doesn't seem to have done for over a month of peak season, this then meant there was a major problem with the said cottage whilst someone was staying in it which could have been very dangerous but luckily happened during the day when no-one was in, when these people then complained to another person working generally on the lettings side they were told it was all their fault when it wasn't and everyone knew it wasn't because everyone knew there had been a problem in the cottage) would warrant some sort of warning.

As a consequence we have one set of rigtly angry holiday makers who'd booked through an external agency who are now questioning whether the business relationship is viable. 25-30% of holiday let revenue comes from this agency so it would have a massive impact on this side of the business if the contract came to an end. We have had to spend lots and lots of money fixing a problem which, if it had been solved correctly in the first place, would have been very minor and ordinary. And I have lost trust in the members of staff.

I guess I am angry because they messed up, angry because I feel I should have noticed something was wrong but I'm ill and have actually taken some unpaid time off because it is the school holidays and childcare is ridiculously expensive (my fault for having a big family I know), angry because DH won't say anything to them and therefore they will have no consequences for their actions and angry because it sort of feels like his family take him for granted sometimes - we probably pay more than the going rate in wages for his family and they seem reluctant to work hard in return even though he works his fingers to the bone so that we can afford to do this.

So I guess AIBU for wanting him to be a bit more business like with his family? AIBU for wanting him to give the relatives some consequences for their actions?

Arghhh I don't even know anymore and that was stupidly long and I'm just so angry about it and I've got three ill children and am feeling crap myself and am just ranting now!

Sorry for the long read and I must applaud and congratulate you if you've managed to understand any of that...

Honestly? This sounds unworkable to me. You have to be able to discipline staff if they don't do their jobs. You already use the carrot (in the form of higher than average wages) and that isn't working, so if you can't use the stick what else can you do?

I was involved in a family business, it was an absolute nightmare because one of the people involved was a workshy thief and the other partners refused to discipline them whilst I worked twice as hard for the same financial reward. I left, but I am still feeling the financial and family consequences to this day. You need to get your husband onside with this. Otherwise, you might have to take a financial hit for him to actually see that his actions (or his inaction in this case) could have serious repercussions for the business.

Definitely still needs to be treated like a business. Warnings, dismissal, whatever the course of action would be if they weren't family.

employing family leads to trouble - i learned that as a child when my dad employed his brothers, brother in law etc.

no matter how close the family is, the employees will sue your arse for redundancy, wrongful dismissal, any ruse they can get you on.

if you are going to continue to maintain your business (well done, by the way, it sounds amazing) you need your dh's co-operation and you need to bolster him up. if things go well and you can keep all your staff, they'll resent you and dh because you're better off than them, and if it goes badly and you have to let them go, they'll hate you.

do what you would do if they weren't family. you might have to write off this particular matter, but in future make clear exactly what you want and how you want it done. confirm by email and keep copies. get them to respond to your emails - if you keep them light, they won't even notice what you're doing.

then keep proper records if they don't do as you ask, including of any discussions you have with them - and email them confirming content of discussions.

i'm teaching my grandma to suck eggs here, i know! i'm a teacher and you have built a successful business, so what do i know?

i suppose in brief i'm saying 'do what you have to do but watch your back.'

I totally agree with you YANBU at all.
Watch your back just cause it was grandpas place they all fell entitled, it needs to be run as a proper business family or not.

Feel, not fell sorry!

Gosh, poor you, what a nightmare. YANBU and good posts by lovebunny and others.

Family businesses are notorious for being extra complicated, I'm currently addicted to 'Country House Rescue' (bear with me I'm in Oz so it's all new to me) and fundamentally most of these family estates are a minefield due to the grumbles and bitter motivations of the extended family involved.

Anyhoo . . . do your staff all have proper employment contracts? Is there a clear line of responsibility that leads to you (as head of holiday lettings) or your husband (as owner and overall head honcho)? If you are ultimately responsible for the lettings side, how do you feel about handing out a written warning if he wont? Would he be willing to let you take that on if he feels unable? It's unfair I know- particularly as you're ill. But somebody needs to MANAGE this business.

It does sound that you have done very well so far, but this incident has maybe brought to a head an issue that needs to be tackled head on. Perhaps getting an outside consultant in could be helpful?

Good luck.

Sack them and I'll come and work for you, your business sounds fab!

YANBU, they are taking advantage.

YANBU and I would have thought the consequences were obvious; if you lose 25/30% of your business, you may need to lose 30/40% or more of your staff in order to maintain profitability.

Presumably you've done damage limitation; bouquet of flowers/money back or offer of complementary week's stay to the outraged cusomer, humble pie and sincere apologies for this one-off error to the agency?

Time to call your staff together to lay it on the line; perhaps ask them to put forward proposals for attracting new business to make up any shortfall and also put forward their proposals as to how savings can be made on salaries in the event that your lettings business is axed from the agency's books.

Your staff need to know that their continued employment is dependent on customer satisfaction and that anyone who is not prepared to go the extra mile in ensuring that all properties are kept up to and above the required standard, while adhering to the principle that the customer is always right even when they're patently wrong will be best advised to take a hike to the job centre.

If your dh is not prepared to take the lead in this matter, will he be willing to delegate all responsibility for hiring and firing to you without interference and without acting as a court of appeal for his relatives - presuming that you are willing to undertake this role?

Perhaps the farming business and the holiday lettings business can be completely split, with you having sole responsibility for and last word on that part of the business that you've grown with him having sole responsibility for the farming side while sharing joint responsibility for the farm shop?

YANBU at all.

I really sympathise OP, YANBU at all. Sadly, working with family seems to have this problem. DH worked for his step-father when we were first married and it was awful. He thought it was OK to forget to pay DH on a regular basis, meaning we were strapped for cash to live/pay bills etc. It's not as if the business was in trouble, he was a millionaire at the time (another long and fraught story that didn't end well)!!!!

There's no easy solution for you - the only thing I can suggest is that you sit them all down and talk to them, as their employer, not a relative. Perhaps the boundaries of the personal/business relationships need to be made very clear again. As in, when we're at work it's business not personal and all dealings will be conducted on this basis, even if it means I have to give you a written/verbal warning. After all, if they fuck up again to this extent they may not have a job because they would have lost you so much business and income!

Good luck!

Its a business first and foremost. Dh and dad are in business together with dh being the MD of the company. If dad fucked up, he would expect t to be treated as any other employee would be dad. Dad would be mortified to find out we were letting things go, making the business unviable because he was family.
That's why we are in business with him. All agree its a business and we just happen to be related.
Your dh needs to step up. However if he does delegate the responsibility to you (as you run this side) make sure you follow employment law, if they are the type to let you down they will sue you if they get the chance.

Thank you for all your replies!

Am feeling much better generally this morning - I was so stressed last night I couldn't get to sleep and ended up waking up DH at about 2 to rant

I basically let him know how angry I was about the whole situation and putting the damage in financial terms and showing him the implications of this on the future of the business seems to have shocked him a bit. He agreed that what happened was unacceptable and feels let down.

They have employment contracts Claudia with clear job descriptions - I insisted on it.

lovebunny family are difficult aren't they!

I guess there might be some problems surrounding the inheritance - DH inherited outside the traditional line. It skipped a generation - he was the first child of the first child and first grandchild but should have gone to his dad first (who had never shown any interest in the estate what so ever).

But when we inherited, DH's grandfather had been trying to look after it on his own for too long - none of his sons wanted to help and DH was the first other family member to work for him for a very long time. We were only 20 when we moved in to look after his grandfather and there had been about a decade of neglect of buildings and land since then (no fault of his grandfather who was very ill and elderly and should not have been left with such worry and work by himself. DH has worked so hard and has turned this into a successful business and I'm so proud of him but don't want this to all be ruined by certain family members.

izzy done my best damage limitation - moved the family into a bigger cottage for the rest of their stay, refunded the week and given them a gift voucher for the local really nice pub so they can have a meal on us. Also went in person to apologise and see if they needed me to do anything and if any of their possessions were damaged and if so, what we could do in terms of compensation/replacements. Will be harder with the company because obviously they feel it reflects badly on them but I'm hoping that if I can show them how systems have been put in place to stop something like this happening again then they will be satisfied.

I know we are lucky - we got a massive break early on in our lives and I know that if we hadn't have inherited the business our life would be very different and we could nowhere near have the lifestyle we have now. It isn't without hard work though and I think some of DH's family need to realise this.