to think that we really don't need to be making children do more sport?

[Tricccky]

Don't get me wrong, I am LOVING the olympics. It's fantastic to watch and great that it will, no doubt, 'inspire a generation'. I hope that some kids are genuinely inspired go greatness from it. But it does not highlight anything systemically wrong in sports teaching (in my opinion) or mean we should strengthen sports teaching targets. Three points:

1. We are THIRD in the world already (looking at the medal tally). There's clearly not a long wrong with our current approach. The two country's ahead of us have approximately 4 times (US), and 16 times (China) our population. We are punching way above our weight. The national lottery sponsored schemes have clearly been a massive massive success and due credit should be given.

1. Success in sport at a national competitive lesson should not be for schools to push. Giving children access into competitive sports absolutely should be - and in my experience most schools do do this. The whole 'state schools don't do competitive sports' thing is complete bollocks from what I know. Every state school I know where I am does competition perfectly well thank you very much. They encourage it (and not just in sport) so it really bugs me when this myth is peddled about. However, schools can and should only take children to a certain level - essentially recognising potential. Specialist sports clubs at local and national level is what will take children beyond that.

1. Sport just isn't for everyone. If there wasn't an Olympics, and instead there was a major musical (for example) world playoff, we'd all currently be clamouring for 2 hours music teaching for every child every week - there's plenty of evidence of the added extra that music (etc) gives to children who spend time on this activity, that it adds to their other academic achievements, gives them confidence etc etc. All this extra proposed time for sport will take away from other 'non-core' areas, like music, which would be a massive negative for many children for whom sport will never be a mainstay.

Often it's the case that a primary school doesn't have a properly trained rugby coach to teach tackling properly (I was once knocked out as I stupidly put my head in front of the knee of the person I was trying to bring down instead of behind for example- knee came straight up into my temple) , and if that's the case, then prob better they play tag. Also, AFAIK, in schools the scrum is now uncontested until secondary levels, even in prep schools where they usually do have someone fairly well qualified to coach rugby, as scrum collapses/ poor scrum discipline is where a lot of serious neck injuries can arise.

Why the heck shouldn't schools want to help tackle the obesity problem
Are you a teacher lljkk? If you are, why don't you give a shit about children's health and wellbeing?

I think that the distinction between competitive sport and sport-for-life/health is a really important one, and DCs need to grow up knowing that sport is for everyone.

My DD (7) and my DSS2 (14) are currently at a US residential summer camp for three weeks that offers 60 different sports. All children of all ages (7-17) can try all sports (with a very few exceptions due to regulations), the idea behind the camp being that DCs need to find some sports-for-life.

Icecold. Kids who play Rugby League tackle earlier than 8 (at least they do where I live) but mumsnet being mumsnet there is of course only one kind of rugby

Schools are lumbered with trying to do too much already. Schools are NOT pancea for all of society's ills that affect youth. Schools can't do anything well if they are expected to do too many different things. Educating kids about the value of physical activity, educating them about good nutrition & healthy lifestyle, teach them basic rules of some sports, yes, schools should be about education. Understandably can exploit some of their unique oppotunities to help with other social functions (like keeping an eye out for abuse).

Sport to me = competitive physical activity.
You can't call it sport if it isn't competitive in nature.
So we may be talking cross purposes (I think some posters on here would include stuff like walks in the countryside or dance in their idea of "sport").
More people (kids) will learn to enjoy physical activity all the more if there's not an overtly competitive aspect to it every single time.

DS HATES contact sport but likes tag-rugby, so I'm glad that he's not going to be coerced into contact rugby. I am shuddering at that nightmare prospect, actually. Our local rugby club is supposed to have a terrific youth development programme, but they do contact-rugby from 7yo so non-starter for DS (and anyone who is small for age, too).

I don't believe that asking schools to address the problem of obesity insofar as they are able to help is lumbaring them with the problem. I think they have a responsibilty towards children as do parents.
If your ds likes tag there's every chance he'll like contact too. Being small is often an advantage in rugby and there are lots of small players, in both codes, who are fantastic players. Get your ds to look at Rob Burrows on youtube. He's about 5'5" and the most superb player

DS hates being pushed over. So no chance. I know, we tried Judo (he screamed hysterically when pushed over, and then started punching).

I'll take your word about being small is great in rugby. Folk I know with slight-build boys switch them out of rugby to other sport at 7-8yo, they don't like the idea of the same-age lads as big as 10yos pushing their small ones over.

China and the US aren't just doing well because their pool of selection is so much bigger - that's a massive smoke screen. Jamaica is a tiny island and they are dominating athletics.

It's also because in the US and China they have a very competitive spirit - there is a lot of merit in being good at sports, they are encouraged, rewarded, supported, it is closely linked with school and education and sports are a route to success in a way that is just not supported in this country.

Jamaica, a much smaller, poorer country than us, have athletics as a way of life. Their athletes are supported, coached and shown in a highly respectful way - unlike us with our money-grabbing, abusive, misogynistic, rock-star lifestyle footballers

We don't support or provide anywhere near that kind of infrastructure. Most of our athletes have second jobs and there's no link up between after school sports clubs and schools. We just don't support any athlete outside of football in the way other countries do. That is the main reason we're trailing behind in the medals tables - yeah we're third. but look by how much!

And yes, completely agree with Bonsoir about the distinction between competitive sports and movement. We should be doing everything we can to get children away from the TV and gaming consoles, and getting them outside moving more.

And yes yes to Rubyfakenails about the uneducated view of boxing/martial arts. I grew up with martial arts, DH works in an elite boxing gym - yes, some clubs are about pure aggression and are seedy. Yes it has resulted in brain injuries for some. But you've obviously never done it if you don't get the intense fitness, strength and discipline required. It's not just people bashing people's heads in. It's like Mixed Martial Arts - ubiquitously named cage fighting - those people are insanely fit and dedicate their lives to training different disciplines to master them all - I would kill to be that fit!

Nature versus nurture. There is an argument for why Jamaica dominate athletics - accelerated selection. DH is mixed race - his paternal family were almost certainly of slave lineage. He is INSANELY naturally fit, strong and talented at pretty much any sport he turns his hand at. I asked him last night how much he thought his genes contributed to that - he shrugged and said of course it had something to do with it but it was growing up seeing his parents getting out and doing stuff, always sporty, involved in club sports, that really impacted on him. We will never be a competitive country that values sports and the merits of movement and a competitive spirit while we're showing our children it's OK to mooch around on the couch.

The smaller boys ds plays with love the challenge of hunting down massive kids and taking their legs from under them tackling, so yes, you really will have to take my word on the fact that being small is a disadvantage in rugby.

I'd have compulsory family sports, walking, running, swimming and then a selection.
An hour a day for the whole family, from the first year that you have a child.
Because there are a lot of unhealthy, overweight adults as well as the children and I'm sick and tired of everything being wedged into the school curriculum.
You could finish each training session with a healthy meal before going home.

I am American bred & raised. My dad was sport-obsessed & even now, post stroke & hitting 70 he spends most of his weekend time playing something or another. I grew up playing for hours under the basketball court bleachers. We went to the 1984 Olympics.

My mother was somewhat sporty, too. Tennis was her family disease, softball, aerobics, cycling...

I am lousy at sport, well and truly lousy. Utter zero 100% lack of talent. As a child we had presidential fitness awards, the whole competition thing done several times a year, as recommended above perhaps, complete with wall charts for national standards so we could all see just where we each placed. I just about managed to reach the dizzying heights of "average" in sit-ups. Below average in everything else. Too bad I wasn't good at much else in primary school, either. :( With a huge amount of effort I've managed to develop some stamina as an adult.

Somehow the American system, their competitive spirit, for nurturing sporting talent passed me by.
And millions of others, USA has biggest obesity epidemic in the world. Great arm-chair fans, though.

ps: DC are all moderately sporty, especially DD.

If we really wanted to encourage more sport we would make all sports facilities free. We could fund it by adding taxes to junk food :) We could also subsidise sports equipment (sports shoes for kids can get very costly as they keep growing out of them).

I also think we should make a thing about sport being fun. It doesn't have to be competitive (can be for an elite few, but doesn't have to be for everyone). For example lots of clubs frown on people who just want to play for fun (eg badminton, tennis). We should have many more clubs that are there for people who enjoy playing but don't want to compete.

I have many plans, especially World Domination, and when I become Chief, PE will be placed high on the curriculum. Not the sort of PE they have now. I see far too many teenaged girls shirking PE lessons (lets face it, who wants to be running round a muddy rugby pitch for an hour in an arctic gale with no shower facilities?) but dance, yoga, anything that keeps them moving.

Ditto with boys. Not all boys are of the alpha variety. Some loathe the whole rough and tumble of orchestrated PE. Why not golf?

DS3s school does the mainstream stuff: rugby, football, badminton, volleyball

DS2s school on the other hand has all that plus cricket, hockey (which I would consider mainstream), tampolining, go karting, golf, sailing weekends at Cowes, fencing, basket ball. You name it, they do it.

There is a vast difference across schools in how PE is rolled out. Normally dependant on the PE teachers personal sports prowess.

I like the Oriental approach of an hour of exercise before work/school done as a group thing. Not sure it would catch on over here though.

Lljkk. What is the point you are trying to make? Ban all competitve sport (especially contact) because you and your ds don't like it?

IIjkk, that statement is true in my area, which i assume has the same catchement and application proccess as the rst of the country.

FallenCaryatid - I think George Orwell had a similar idea in 1984

I think that investment in sports in schools would be good. However I think we need to invest in links between schools, regional coaching/training and then national coaching/training.

In my city (birmingham) there are already effective links/scouting with our football teams and my DCs know a few kids who've gone on to do really well in that sphere. Schools can only do so much - we should be looking at pathways to widen access to the professional regional level coaching/training in other sports to provide opportunity for the kids who show aptitude in these areas.

lijkk our specialism school definitely offer their specialism differently to non-specialism schools. Music school has instrument practice an hour per day and multiple bands and orchestras. Sports school has phenominol facilities...I imagine they attract better specialism teachers too??

There is only 1 kind of rugby! thebest

That is very true icecold

'I like the Oriental approach of an hour of exercise before work/school done as a group thing. Not sure it would catch on over here though.'

Yes, for everyone. No point in concentrating on the children when the whole family is in need, when Jumping achieves her aim we can implement compulsory Fitness For All.
Second level could be exercising whilst playing a musical instrument, or singing complex harmonies.

My school PE teacher put me off. She used to get irate when we didn't achieve high standards is Olympic standard. I remember her screaming at me 'do you know Daley Thompson is faster than you' Wish I had had the nerve to scream back 'of course he us he's an Olympic decathlete' I was a 12 year old girl when this was said and stopped trying so hard as I figured I would get into trouble no matter what I managed to do.

I hated school PE, they used to make me take my glasses off and then get cross when I fell of things and couldn't see the ball.
Lots of shouting and mockery.

Do you live in a deprived area theenthusiastictroll?

I have done and still do and I can assure my children don't get anything for 'nothing' there is a locally based football club (major one) that does community outreach type stuff and offer football workshops in school holidays but they are for everyone and certainly wouldn't be enough 3x a year wouldn't be would it?

Tbh what you said sounds a bit dailymailesque! Like free flatscreen tvs for benefit claimants etc.

I am just agreeing with OP that (ime) we don't (overall) need more competitive sport in schools.

For that matter, Britain is punching so high above its weight, I suggest we don't change anything at all. What Britain is doing is already spectacularly successful and excellent value for money. The current system is obviously working very well. If it's not broken, don't fix it.

It's intriguing to hear that specialist funding makes that much difference elsewhere.

All local state secondaries have or have had recently supposed specialist status; none of them has phenomenal facilities for anything, and it's not unusual to find, say, that the best X-country runners are at the art school, that the sports-college has poor quality playing fields, or that the best art department is at the math-IT specialist school.

I dont no. but I do live in a town with amassive amount of derprivation, at least 4 primary schools out of 6 in my town are in deprived areas and one of those schools I know for a fact recieve vouchers, that are given to the children and they are able use in many of the local sports activities.

Like I said, many of them are used in my dds old gymnastic club, a football team that i know of and someone I know uses them at cheerleading groups for her dcs.

I didnt mean it to come across as dailymailish or accusing of people getting something for nothing. this scheme does exist in my town and I know for a fact this particular school, I couldnt say about the other schools though but definatly this particular school, it is in the most deprived area of my town.

Im not suggesting it is wrong in anyway, but I do think that it should be accessable to more children, for instance, I am in reciept of benifits and I rent privatly but my dd attends a school not classed as deprived, therefore my cirs are similar to others who recive this help, but |I dont. I dont begrudge or thisg those should nt but I do think maybe subsadised activities should be availible to all or more children, however that is difficilt as most groups are run by volunteers.

you dont have to believe me but I have not made it up, would have no reason to. Im not bashing anyone.