To not mind about tenants being DSS

[starkadder]

We have a flat we rent out in London. Tenant just moved out and we are looking for a new one. A couple of prospectives haves asked about it saying "do you accept DSS?". As far as I'm concerned, it isn't an issue - after all, if someone is on housing benefit surely they are more likely to pay their rent, not less? But I know lots of landlords do have an issue. Am I missing something? Or are landlords who have an issue with DSS being unreasonable and unfairly discriminatory?

Ive had the absolute best tenants ever who have been on hb, and the absolute worst. People can be shite regardless of financial status, I wouldn't use hb as a marker. But (having had my fingers burnt in the past) Ii would make sure I followed up references and got a financial history check done. But that would be for any tenant, working or not.

As above it will be down to the people that you rent to an this is exactly why you should take references/credit reports and check them carefully.

I've been renting for 9yrs, the last 5 of those have been as a claimant of housing benefit.

I have never made a late payment, and I have never lost money on a deposit.

This is true of both the time when I coul fully cover the rent through working, and now when I cannot.

It's annoying to be lumped into the 'dss claimant = non-paying house trashing trouble maker' banner that so often gets bandied about.

I didn't realise so many landlords didn't take HB tennents. I was a private tennent but split with my ex when DD was about one and a half and even though I work full time can not afford the rent on my salary so was awarded HB. I would imagine there are lots of single working mums like me who just don't earn enough to pay full rent. I look after my flat well and have never had any issues with my HB payments from the council so always pay on time. It's a shame to tar everyone with the same brush because of their financial situation. My landlord's been great. I'm lucky to have a good landlord. Now I'm a bit worried if I ever need to move!

Must clarify, we are good LLs, we checked references, all certificates up to date, any problem sorted straight away, only visit once a year for 30 sec check. I did say in my op I know we`ve been unlucky, and that not all HB tenants are like that so my op was certainly not a dig at all HB tenants . But I personally wouldnt go down that road again.

There are insurance companies that do not have HB exclusions out there and very well priced too.

I worked in a letting agency and privatly the people that worked there said - housing tennants have guaranteed rent coming in, you can ask for it to be paid directly to you - but alot of people just have a stigma agasint it.,

Out of the very very few people who were causing problems not paying rent - it wasnt the housing tennants people it was other renters...who had since lost job etc...

Its a real catch 22 situation as they want to find private landlords so they dont have to live on council estates but then so many private LL are stringently opposed to them.

Quite a few people we had coming in - did have plenty of thier own money but for instance they had just got divorced - sold family home and needed the finaces to be sorted out to release equity and in the mean time they needed to be housed...it was a nightmare...

As the letting agency you cant push landlords much to try housing associatoin as of course they are your client but I do wish they would be more open minded.

For instance - landlords could simply ask to meet potential renters first...and have a chat - ask for money to be paid direclty to them etc...then you get a better idea of the people and the circumstances...

It's not the hb tenants I have a problem with, it's the hb department! If you have someone who is on a really tight budget, and the hb department suddenly randomly stops paying (which they do ime quite often and for no reason) your tenant won't be able to pay the rent and you could be waiting months for them to sort it out, and they may or may not backdate the claim. It's a nightmare really.

Our landlord insurance specifies no HB or students. We'd have to pay much higher premiums if we accepted HB, so we don't.

In some areas you can't get the HB paid directly to you, in some areas you can only apply for that if they are 8 weeks in arrears. A landlord is sweating a bit if they are 8 weeks in arrears, and then it takes ages for the HB office to actually send you any money. They might even ask for proof of ownership to slow things down even more. A mortgage statement won't do, they want a copy of the Land Registry entry.
Meanwhile, the tenant has pocketed 8 weeks HB and had a couple of nice holidays, and will possibly end up paying you a token amount for the next goodness knows how many years.
Having said all that, we had a HB tenant move into our property over 6 weeks ago. Very nice lady with a child. As she had already had her HB paid direct to her landlord this can continue. 6 weeks and so far no income. We are hoping that HB will actually pay it soon, but know in our hearts that what is most likely to happen is that they will pick up the file, and then decide they want us to fill out some paperwork, and get a copy of the Land Registry... which will have to be processed before they even think of paying some money.
Grrrr....

*We have dss tenants, they keep the place well but they have taken us to hell and back with the rent. For over a year and a half we had to chase them every month, every month we had a story 'the bank lost the money' 'one of the children n hospital' etc, the council said that until they were in eight week arrears it could not be paid directly to us. Anyway naturally about six months ago they stop paying the rent, we put ourselves into horrendous debt to cover the mortgage and now the council pay us directly and they are paying the outstanding amount back £20 a week and yep, we have to chase for that too.

I know we've been unlucky, but I wouldn't wish the stress on anyone, we feel totally trapped by them, and yes we still feel responsible for them as they are a really large family and we know that they'll have trouble finding new accommodation. However, they can only push us so far.

So sorry, I would nt go down that road again and I feel terrible that I feel like that and I know many dss tenants would not act like that.*

I agree. I had no problem with having a HB tenant but when it went pear shaped the council were as much use as Anne Franks drum kit. That is what has put me off having a HB tenant again, depspite the fact that my property now looks like something off a channel 4 documentary, I would be willing to take on another HB tenant. But only if the council would give us private landlords the same respect as they give the tenant. My tenant cancelled her HB out of spite when she tried to blackmail us into giving her money not to smash the place up. The HB was paid directly to us, and when we asked them to come and see that she was still living there they didn't want to know. So all the security I had of receiving the rent directly went out the window.
I did say to the woman at the council to look at the pile of genuine cases in front of her and know that because of their lack of common sense in the situation one of those genuine, honest families is missing out on a lovely secure home with a good landlady.

We had some dss tenants over the road from us and they trashed the house They also abused the neighbours next door - lady and her terminally ill husband

dh's insurance company won't pay for cover if there are dss tenants in. I guess some are bad and some aren't, but a lot of LL's aren't prepared to take the risk as mistakes can be costly and distressing.

I used to rent to DSS in the early days of being a LL but I dont anymore.

Rather than being due to the type of tenant for me it is more to do with the council being a bloody pain in the arse when they review cases etc, I had to wait weeks for my money, they just buggered me about no end and it wasnt worth the hassle.

I have had some shitty DSS tenants too who trashed the place, but also had some shitty private tenants who have been even worse........most tenants are lovely and respect their home, however, dss or not, some dont.

You will work what works for you as a LL -I have been renting for almost 20 years now so have had years of problems to learn from.

I am a private HB tenant. HB dick us around all the time. We have been claiming for a year while me and my DH are out of work. We will both be working by the end of the year (jobs secured), thank god the nightmare will be over. In the meantime, as our benefits have changed a couple of times, we have each time had our HB claim suspended. This is not for a few days, but months each time. Months! I was able to borrow money to pay some months, but my landlord is sick of it. I don't blame him, it's so terrible. Just to warn you, as we keep our place clean, tidy and do minor repairs ourselves, but are just not able to be good tenants on HB!

There seems to be a theme emerging here. Perhaps if council policy was a little more balanced instead of being all tenant led then there would be more landlords willing to let to the people most in need.
We are not all big businesses, some of us are accidental landlords just trying to get by.

YANBU. Money (or lack of it) is no indicator of honesty and decency.

Strange that the rent is not paid directly to the landlord right from the start. I rent a 2 bed terrace and have always received the rent for dhss tenats directly from the HE.

Mine was recd direct from the start. It doesnt stop the tenant cancelling it with a simple phone call.
If the council insisted they could only cancel HB with a signed end of tenancy agreement or inspection of the property to confirm the tenant has left, and paid all rent direct to the LL then I would feel secure enough to take on another tenant. I cannot really see any reason why the rent should be paid to a tenant, surely it is more efficient for everyone to pay direct?
As it is they can cancel, and then still get advice to hang fire until the LL has gone though the cost etc of the courts. Why would I want someone in the house if the council are going to say that!

Tenants are as good or bad as any other. It's the HB depts that are a nightmare- refusing to pay until I wrote 2 letters and had them visit to confirm the layout of my granny flat, then when tenant temped and signed off and on four times in three months they paid up for three times but want to 'investigate' the other. A year later after weekly nagging they are still 'investigating'! And when tenant unemployed for a while, they are paying less than the local HB payment should be, again being 'investigated' 9 months later and even our MP can't get sense out of them.

Nightmare.

My difficulty is with the system not the people - I'd always check references and go with my own sense of whether people are basically ok or not, however they might pay.

But my problem with HB is it is paid in arrears, so by the time you know rent has not been paid they're a month behind already. Then, once you've allowed reasonable time for payment, then if not forthcoming given notice, by the time they've moved out you are a number of months' rent down.

I charge a deposit that covers more rent than the notice period (otherwise it may be in the tenant's interests not to pay rent at the end of the contract and then you have nothing left to cover any damage). I think this is basic LL common sense. HB recipients generally don't have that money available up front.

Councils don't like to pay LLs direct because of the difficulty in getting back any overpayment.

The debt would belong to the tenant but the LL would have the money and absolutely no incentive to hand it back.

There are additional risks. For example, a few years ago, my dad had a tenant in his flat who was claiming housing benefit. He had no problem with this. Until it turned out that she was not entitled to claim. She did a midnight flit. The benefits people reclaimed the benefit paid from the landlord - my dad. Even though he had no way of assessing whether or not her claim was correct as of course this was between the tenant and the benefits office. He lost out hugely as a result.

The property I rented out had to be first checked out by the local council enviromental officer to check its suitability for rental and to see if any repairs/ upgrades needed to be put in place. The property was then inspected by the HE who pay the HB to put in place a cap for the rental value. These checks enabled the rent to be paid directly from the HE into my account, its a good and fair system imo.

One of the things that might affect whether you specify "no DSS" is if you might want your property back easily and simply. This is less of an issue with "investment" property which you are always going to want to be renting out to someone - then so long as you get DSS people who pay up on time that's no problem.

However, be aware that if you want to give your tenants notice to terminate their contracts because you either want to move back in yourself or sell the place, there are a lot of people - and more often this will be people getting DSS/HB support - who will not move out at the end of the notice period and will force you to evict them. This can be done with no ill-will or malice on their part - but if they leave your property at the end of the notice period without a fight they are defined as having "made themselves intentionally homeless" and do not qualify for emergency housing help, and will not be very high up waiting lists for alternative accomodation. If they refuse to leave and make you evict them, they get more points towards the waiting list position that defines whether they get something else, so it is a sensible choice for them to make unless they can find something just as good easily.