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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask why the other hospital can't do it this way

27 replies

CBear6 · 03/08/2012 17:58

DD (10mo) is currently having follow-up tests after a nasty kidney infection. She was treated for the infection at NTGH and had her ultrasound and bladder test there as well as some blood tests. Today she had a kidney scan at RVI which involved a blood draw and a needle stick to inject dye.

At NTGH when she had the initial infection she had to have an IV put in her hand. Two staff members literally pinned her to the table, with her fighting them, while a third put the needle in her hand. We were both sobbing by the time it was done and it took ages to console her afterwards. After she was discharged she ha follow up appointments. At the first of these they needed blood, again she was pinned to a table while a doctor jabbed her (and jabbed her again and again because they couldn't hit the vein) followed by a second doctor having a go. Again she was howling the whole time and fighting to be free. At her last appointment we refused to let them draw blood as she became distressed as soon as they lay her on the table.

At RVI today they put numbing cream on her arms and hands then sent us away for an hour to get a coffee/have a walk. When we went back they checked for a vein then had her sit on my knee with the chosen arm tucked behind me, like I was hugging her IYSWIM? One nurse then blew bubbles in front of her while we all chatted, sang, made faces, etc and the other did the blood draw and dye injection completely out of sight with no tears other than a slight whinge when DD tried to move the hidden arm to grab the bubbles. It was much nicer and more relaxed with no screaming/sobbing and no look of terror on her little face.

I know firsthand that it's hard seeing your baby being 'hurt' even though that 'hurt' is for their own good and is being done by medical professionals, my initial instinct is to snatch her away from the thing causing her pain. The tests are necessary but going to a different hospital today has really opened our eyes to the fact that it can be done another way and that pinning a frightened child to a bed isn't really the best approach.

AIBU to write to NTGH and ask them why they can't do the same as the RVI? I've never written to a hospital before with feedback (good or bad) and I have this daft idea that I'll be labelled one of those mothers if I do!

OP posts:

Softlysoftly · 03/08/2012 18:02

Yanbu to write to them and it may help others in future.

Got to ask though why did you let them pin her? Couldn't you think of ways to comfort, distract bribe her into it to try first?

altinkum · 03/08/2012 18:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Debeez · 03/08/2012 18:04

The RVI is amazing for children, they have the play specialists who you have obviously met.

Other hospitals don't have these facilities and will push on regardless. EX P was a doctor. You can REFUSE of behalf of your daughter to have the needle unless she's had the cream. You'll be made to feel a pain though. EX P would never do anything like this without the creams and a distraction unless it was a medical emergency and he was made to feel like a pain and he was the bloody doctor ffs.

Just because they don't have the play specialists is no excuse for not giving a child the cream unless it's a IV must go in NOW scenario. From your OP you don't sound like "one of those" mothers and you are aware that sometimes it's in the child's best interested. FWIW I agree with you that this wasn't one of those situations.

Write in, be honest and to the point. Nothing will change if no one complains.

drtachyon · 03/08/2012 18:09

YANBU to ask them about the numbing cream, especially if you'll need to go back to NTGH.

Softlysoftly, I think you are being a little unfair - if you're not familiar with medical procedures, it's natural to assume that the way the staff are doing things is the normal, routine way and is best for the patient. Even if you later realise that there are better ways of doing things.

tiggytape · 03/08/2012 18:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WelshMaenad · 03/08/2012 18:56

YANBU, I would write to their PALS and describe your experiences.

Nyancat · 03/08/2012 18:59

They generally use emla cream, you shouldnt have to but some people buy it and stick some on back of hand etc before going in. Works well for making bikini waxes less painful too!

greenbananas · 03/08/2012 19:03

YANBU at all - write to the hospital. The numbing cream does help a lot.

The bubble blowing shows that they are thinking about things from the child's point of view. Having said that, DS had a fear of bubbles for ages after his blood tests when he was 1 year old. The second time he needed blood taken, I sent the nice bubble-blowing nurse away and instead I breastfed him while he was having the blood taken. He didn't even notice because he was so intent on feeding, and because the numbing cream had worked so well.

maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour · 03/08/2012 19:03

YANBU

I've never forgiven myself for letting an inexperienced registrar try to take blood from my six week old, he tried and tried and ended up snapping the needle off and tearing my babys hand the consultant did it in one go. I normally never object to training in hospitals because how else are people going to learn but I won't let it happen to one of my dc again

I hope your dd is on the mend now now Cbear

whathasthecatdonenow · 03/08/2012 19:04

Manchester Children's Hospital send the emla cream out to you with the appointment letter, then you can use it to numb the area before the appointment. My niece has to have contrast dye injected for her scans every three months. She still screams the place down though, it's the fear of the needle, not the pain with her.

Original poster

CBear6 · 03/08/2012 19:06

I was told that pinning is how it's done: 'we know it looks awful but it's the best way to stop her wriggling mid-stick' and so on. It's only now we've gone elsewhere that we know it can be done differently and we did refuse her last bloods at NTGH.

I had Emla cream when I had her! She was an EMCS but they had some time to spare (very early labour, breech, cord around her legs - she did a good job) do before they did all the consent forms they put cream on for the IV and by the time it was ready to stick me with the needle I was pleasantly numbed.

So are PALS the best ones to write to?

OP posts:

greenbananas · 03/08/2012 19:09

Yes, it's best to write to PALS for making a complaint, but I don't think there is any harm in also writing a 'helpful' letter to the head of the department you were in, suggesting how your experience might have been improved. That way, action might be taken more quickly.

MammaTJ · 03/08/2012 19:11

I think you need to pass this on!! It is important no other children suffer the 'this is how it's done'. It is not how it is done in good hospitals that genuinely care about the children.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 03/08/2012 19:40

My DS went to the (much maligned in the Press) Queen's Hospital .He is fine with injections, takes things in his stride. They put the Emla cream on his hands, the male theatre nurse chatted to him on the way. Then when he was anaethetised they chatted to him to distract him while they put the cannula into his numb hand, and let him push the plunger of the syringe.

Small, important details to a child (and the mother).

Emla cream is available OTC (I got a prescription once for DD ,which the GP said I'd have to pay for even though it was for a child). The pharmacist said it was cheaper to but OTC.
But make sure you have the occlusive dressings- we got (IIRC) Tegaderm, like a thick film with adhesive edges.

hiddenhome · 03/08/2012 19:49

The NHS childrens' dentist in Ashington has done two fillings on ds2 under 'happy air' (entonox I think), in order to relax him. He was dental phobic prior to this and the entonox really helped him. I don't see why they can't use something like this to take blood from littlies. my ds1 has a needle phobia after being pinned down by nurses (emla didn't work as his veins are poor)

xxmush1983xx · 03/08/2012 20:01

I know how you feel, I have had this experience with DD1, although getting an IV into her was needed there and then so no time for numbing cream, DP and I tried to distract her but in the end had to pin her down cos it was literally life and death to get it in. She then needed another cannula for blood tests, and this time we had time for the cream, it didn't make an difference to her needle fear and her anxiety but helped with the pain. This was when she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and despite her needle fear injects herself with insulin and gives herself finger prick blood tests!

Anyway, YANBU and should definitely give feedback regarding this.

Sirzy · 03/08/2012 20:05

Did they not even use the numbing spray on her before doing it? Poor thing.

Pinning down should be a last resort. DS is 2 and has had 2 lots of bloods done recently one as an impatient at 2am and the other as an outpatient but both times they numbed the area first and where gentle and had me holding him like you described.

xxmush1983xx · 03/08/2012 20:06

I don't think they can use gas before inserting anything into veins, apparently they collapse when you are under the gas? I remember this from when DD1 (again) had her tonsils, adinoids and grommet operation, they couldn't find a vein and she was vv distressed, but anaethetist very reluctant to use gas before inserting cannula and I'm sure I heard her say that was the reason why. Could be wrong tho!

xxmush1983xx · 03/08/2012 20:06

shattereddreams · 04/08/2012 07:56

I had just your experience too OP
The 'horrid' paeds nurses were at Kings London and I had no idea things could be done differently. To make it worse, we had sat waiting for an hour so the emla could have been applied.

Insisted on bloods locally last time at fantastic Queen marys which is the hospital in SE London they have royally screwed over (betting it will be a housing estate ( with no school provision) within 5 years) .
They did it with play specialists.
DD was 4 so they have put fear of hospitals into her.

DamselInLastPlace · 04/08/2012 08:26

We were at the RVI most of yesterday because DS2 was having breathing problems. It was very child centred and we were very impressed. The SHO we saw demonstrated her examination on a doll so DS2 could understand what was happening. The staff are doing a great job (and have very clearly paid attention to the research that's been done on children's rights in relation to medical procedures in the last decade or so).

It's definitely a good idea to give feedback to the other hospital. It should help them improve and minimise the trauma of medical procedures for other children.

mymatemax · 04/08/2012 08:33

it depends how experienced they are with children & i'm afraid how knowledgable you are with what procedures are available.

My ds2 has had lots of hospital involvement since birth, he is 10 now & i ensure i am included in the decision making, even if its only how theya re going to get a blood sample as it can be very simple OK experience or it can be traumatic.

well done for giving the hospital feedback, that is the only way they can improve

sashh · 04/08/2012 12:15

It's probably down to one of two things

the staff at the first hospital have never seen the bubble / hiden arm technique.
Manegment will not allow them to buy bubbles.

Do write, it sounds like a fantastic way of dealing with a young shild and should become 'best practice'.

But that can only happen if they know about it.

NoComet · 04/08/2012 12:22

YANBU
My DD2 has broken both her wrists and the difference in how different nurses, drs and radiologists have treated a young girl in pain is so variable.

One radiologist was so rough, I was tempted to complain. He just grabbed her arm when she could have put it in position herself without tears.

Honestly he just seemed to expect children to cry and want to be rid of her as fast as possible.

IAmOptimusPrime · 04/08/2012 12:29

My ds now has a needle phobia because of previous bad blood tests, being pinned down and jabbed repeatedly because they couldn't find a vein. He's had to have blood taken from his neck before due to small veins. No numbing cream either.

The cream works best when left for an hr not 20 mins! (another blood test disaster).

He had an operation yesterday to remove adanoids and they didn't even bother try to put a canular in, they sent him to sleep with the gas and did it when he was under. They said their veins get bigger after the gas so is easier for them when their veins are so small.

I wish he'd had numbing cream when he had his first blood test then we may have avoided his anxiety.

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