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AIBU?

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Original poster

To feel that the Sikh man whom was denied

58 replies

SoleSource · 02/08/2012 14:49

Entry to a football match in Coventry, (because he was carrying a religious sword) was being unreasonable to complain as that sword could have been taken off him in a fight (from his pocket) etc and used against him etc.

A sword has the potential to be used as a weapon religous symbol or not....

Sorry I am unable to provide links as my phine is shyte.

OP posts:
lovebunny · 03/08/2012 06:38

does the criminal justice act really make sikh swords illegal? i thought sikhs had a dispensation. you might be right. but the sikhs local to me wear their big swords on ceremonial occasions, in the street, without any problem.
'this is the uk'. too right. and sikhs have been here for centuries - though the greater immigration was after the partition of india. sikhs are british.live with it.

Isityouorme · 03/08/2012 06:49

Yes, it does with few exceptions, and going to a sporting event is not one of them.

The reason for the exsistence of the kirpan was for out of necessity to defend themselves hundreds of years ago. That is no longer needed. People should not take these weapons places. It may be that someone through no fault of his own gets into a fight and gets stabbed with it.... Just because the wearer is law abiding doesn't mean others are.

Our laws state he can't wear a kirpan. He was told by the olympic organisers no knives. Yet he felt he was above the law.

SimplySoo · 03/08/2012 07:05

This is the UK - live by our rules.

Wow. What a hurtful disgusting comment. Many Sikhs have been here for generations. Many fought for Britain in the army in India.

As plenty of more informed less bigoted people have pointed out, the sword is blunt, decorative, and one of the 'K's Sikhs are required to adhere to.

HighNoon · 03/08/2012 07:10

some of them are just trying to be difficult

Equally charming!

FallenCaryatid · 03/08/2012 07:15

I had a friend who wore a symbolic kirpan on a leather tong around his neck, it was about 6cm and he was an observant Sikh who was happy with the compromise.

PeshwariNaan · 03/08/2012 07:27

They allow the Sikh sword into Olympic venues. They make an exception for this as it's part of a religious requirement. So if the Olympics are doing it... then again, they have an example to set and probably have better security than other venues.

TopCuppa · 03/08/2012 07:33

I used to work with a Sikh temple and have respect for the religion and some of their principles, actually, but still think they shouldn't be worn in public places as they do vary in length and could clearly be used as a weapon in some cases.

The use of studs mentioned earlier sounds a good compromise though, if it's worn for symbolic reasons. (I was told by baptised Sikhs that the kirpan was to be used for self defense or to defend others in need- not sure about this?)

GhostShip · 03/08/2012 07:36

Religious reasons or not we shouldn't be able to have any sort of weapon on our person

I'm sick of rules being disregarded on the basis of religion.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 03/08/2012 07:37

Hmm at casual racism on this thread

GhostShip · 03/08/2012 07:39

Hmm at people finding racism in everything

lovebunny · 03/08/2012 07:41

The reason for the exsistence of the kirpan was for out of necessity to defend themselves hundreds of years ago
sikhs have a religious obligation to be both scholars and soldiers. the sword or dagger is not for 'self defence' but for defence of faith - and not just their own.
i'm getting 'irked' here. when did you last see a sikh causing any trouble?

ILiveInAPineapple · 03/08/2012 07:42

My brother was allowed to wear his sghian dhu to both a football match and a rugby match. It is part of our national dress, and I see no difference between that and the Sikh sword. It's blatantly racist to allow some forms of "weapon" and not others. It seems if you are in a kilt you can carry a weapon, but not if you are in a turban.

I am also shocked at some of the sentiments on this thread. This IS the Uk, and as such we are a tolerant society, made up of people with many different ancestries, all of whom are British. That is what makes it such a wonderful place to live! Just a shame that there are a few people who don't subscribe to the idea of a tolerant society!!! In part, I blame the Daily Mail!!!

Cyclebump · 03/08/2012 07:43

I used to live near Southall, which has possibly the largest Sikh community in the UK. Every Sikh I have met carries a symbolic kirpan, sometimes it's hidden in the folds of their turban or work on a chain, sometimes it's even pressed into the comb in their hair. The elders in Southall are given special dispensation to carry the full length swords in religious festival parades, and they're heavily policed anyway.

Every Sikh I know is outspokenly British and proud to be so, they completely understand that the law prevents them carrying a full length sword or anything resembling a weapon into places like football stadia.

I'd guess that it was a bit like forgetting your shampoo is in your bag at the airport and being forced to ditch it when they check for liquids. It's just that someone's making a huge fuss this time.

GhostShip · 03/08/2012 07:46

I think this has portrayed Sikhs in a bad way. I'm sure most understand that it isn't allowed to bring swords/daggers into public places, this guy just made a song and dance about it.

Probably blown out of proportion too

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 03/08/2012 08:02

I dont find racism in everything, i find racism in this thread.

GhostShip · 03/08/2012 08:05

I don't. I just see people disagreeing with something that involves a group of people following one religion. That isn't racism.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 03/08/2012 08:19

It is comments such as "some of them are trying to be difficult" abd the assumption that sikhs arent british.

That is the casual racism.

Lovelynewboots · 03/08/2012 08:25

ILiveinapineapple I was wondering about the sgian dhu whilst reading this thread. I have not read any articles on this and am wondering just what happened. Does anyone have any links? It would be interesting to hear if anyone has been forced to relinquish their sgian dhu at a sporting event. I somehow doubt it.

manicinsomniac · 03/08/2012 08:38

I didn't read the comment as assuming that Sikhs weren't British at all! To me it was saying that British people should live by British laws. Which we should. All of us. Religion has no right to trump civil rules that are there for a reason and I say that as a very religious person.

I don't know about the incident in question but I presume that there was a good reason for the man being stopped - maybe his sword was neither small not ceremonial.

lovebunny · 03/08/2012 08:41

'man with large weapon stopped by security'.

ILiveInAPineapple · 03/08/2012 08:44

lovebunny I don't know if you meant it to sound like that, but I just snorted tea from both nostrils!!!! Grin

GhostShip · 03/08/2012 08:44

Doesn't sound like a small discreet ceremonial thing really.

MadamFolly · 03/08/2012 10:42

They are usually kept under the clothes.

They are usually quite small (3 inch blade)

They are very blunt, like a childs toy.

Often they do not even come oput of the scabbard.

Pendeen · 03/08/2012 11:09

Has anyone actually established what kind of 'sword' the man was carrying?

The debate is in a vacuum.

Seems to me if it was only a 3 inch 'toy' as some have described then the football offical was probably BU but if it was actually a sword then obviously it shouldn't have been allowed - in fact it shouldn't have been allowed on the street in the first place.

Puremince · 03/08/2012 13:14

You can buy "skian dhus" which are designed for going through airports etc - normal decorative handle (the visible bit) with a blunt plastic bit underneath to go into the sock.

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