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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

TO think this is no different from...

27 replies

nailak · 01/08/2012 14:54

a married man with kids having an ow with kids who is claiming?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180942/Polygamous-immigrant-families-paid-benefits

Immigrants with more than one wife will qualify for extra benefits under reforms to Britain?s welfare system, after an attempt to crack down on the problem backfired.
Polygamous marriages, largely confined to Muslim families, are only recognised in Britain if they took place in countries where they are legal.
Currently, any additional wives can receive reduced individual income support, meaning the husband and his first wife are paid up to £111.45.

Error: The Department for Work and Pensions' reforms have inadvertently opened up a loophole for polygamous households
Subsequent spouses living under the same roof receive around £40. Under the new system of Universal Credit, which comes in next year, polygamous marriages will not be recognised at all.
Ministers pledged to end the ?absurd? benefits regime which has seen multiple wives allowed to claim extra welfare payments.

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But a House of Commons Library paper has highlighted a loophole in the rules which will allow additional wives to claim a full single person?s allowance, currently worth up to £71, while the original married couple will still get a married couple?s allowance.
The paper said: ?Treating second and subsequent partners in polygamous relationships as separate claimants could mean that polygamous households receive more under Universal Credit than under the current rules.?
The Department for Work and Pensions admitted the loophole but said there were fewer than 50 polygamous families claiming benefits.
The first Asian woman to receive a peerage, Baroness Flather, has spoken out widely on the issue of polygamous families claiming benefits.

There are around 1,000 polygamous homes in Britain, the majority of which are Muslim
'Under Islamic Sharia law, polygamy is permissible. So a man can return to Pakistan, take another bride and then, in a repetition of the process, bring her to England where they also have children together ? obtaining yet more money from the state,' she wrote in the Mail last year.
'Because such Islamic multiple-marriages are not recognised in Britain, the women are regarded by the welfare system as single mothers ? and are therefore entitled to the full range of lone-parent payments. We cannot continue like this.
'Why are they allowed to have more than one wife,' she added.
'We should prosecute one or two people for bigamy, that would sort it out.'
Currently in the UK it is illegal to marry more than once.
But if the multiple marriages took place abroad then it is not.
A spokesman for the Department for Work and Pensions told MailOnline said that the loophole will exist because extra wives in a polygamous home are treated as single.
'Polygamy is illegal in this country and it would be wrong for the benefits system to legitimise these arrangements by recognising them in any way,' they said.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180942/Polygamous-immigrant-families-paid-benefits-Government-blunder.html#ixzz22Ip7c8Xr

OP posts:
valiumredhead · 01/08/2012 14:58

Sorry, I stopped reading when I got to the DM link!

nailak · 01/08/2012 15:04

basically it says that if a man has 2 partners in a polygnous marriage then one of the partners would be classed as a single parent.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 01/08/2012 15:07

The family would get more benefits if one wife and children were treated as a single parent and not as one family.

This has always been a 'problem' and nothing new, but it doesn't stop the DM making a moutain out of a molehill.

Birdsgottafly · 01/08/2012 15:10

You cannot prosecute someone for an act that it is legal in the country that they done it in, so a massive change in law would be needed,

If a family was blocked from being brought in, the Human Rights Act would be broken.

Once again the Tories and the DM, are telling the bigots what they want to hear, knowing that they cannot act.

Olympia2012 · 01/08/2012 15:49

Why is it that these families are on income support anyway?

FartyMcTarty · 01/08/2012 15:51

Same reason as any other family on income support, I expect Hmm

firawla · 01/08/2012 15:56

both the wives should be getting same amount, if one is treated as single parent then they will be getting more than the other thats wrong surely cos he has to treat them both equally?

Olympia2012 · 01/08/2012 15:58

Which is?

A married couple and neither one is seeking work? They should be on jobseekers, especially if there are additional adults being brought in

LemarchandsCoxlessPair · 01/08/2012 15:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirEdmundFrillary · 01/08/2012 16:01
Sallyingforth · 01/08/2012 16:03

Simple answer: If two wives are sharing the same husband, they should be sharing the additional benefit of married couple's allowance.

Birdsgottafly · 01/08/2012 16:11

"A married couple and neither one is seeking work"

In some cases they may not have the right to work, yet.

There may be disability, they may be fleeing a war zone and are traumatised.

That cannot be decided over the internet, tbh.

Olympia2012 · 01/08/2012 16:13

That's why I asked birds.... But was met with a Hmm from mcTarty

Thanks for adding that

Birdsgottafly · 01/08/2012 16:14

All we need now is the reports about them getting two council houses knocked into one.

I wonder what is being pushed through whilst this crap is used as a cover up.

SoleSource · 01/08/2012 16:57

Whats your point OP

Trazzletoes · 01/08/2012 17:04

Please can I point out that if a man marries a woman in Pakistan, subject to meeting criteria, she can get a wife's visa. Whilst any subsequent marriage in Pakistan would be legally recognised by the Uk, immigration law will only allow you to have ONE spouse in the UK at any one time.

Not to say that wife number 2 wouldn't qualify for a different visa. Also plenty of men have 2 British wives and just don't have a UK legally recognised marriage...

nailak · 01/08/2012 20:21

firawla i am not sure, if he is working and splits his wages equally, and considers benefits etc to be the wives own income, like child benefit and tax credits etc then it might work?

whoever had more kids would get more though? but surely that is ok?

OP posts:
nailak · 01/08/2012 20:22

trazzle thats what im saying, is there any diff between a man having a legal marriage and an ow on the side. and a man having a legal marriage and nikkah "on the side"?

If one is illegal then surely the other has to be too?

OP posts:
nailak · 01/08/2012 20:25

sallying would it be the same for a wife and a OW? if they are sharing the same man should they share the couples allowance?

also Trazzle it could be the case they have a nikkah with a british woman so the immigration thing wont apply?

OP posts:
discrete · 01/08/2012 20:27

It is not illegal for a married man with kids to have an ow with kids who is claiming as a single mother, is it?

In fact, if they were living a polygamous relationship in this country and hadn't married in their country of origin, that is exactly how they would be claiming surely?

I am Confused

nailak · 01/08/2012 20:31

thanks discrete I am glad someone understands what im on about!! lol

OP posts:
Trazzletoes · 01/08/2012 20:31

It's not illegal to have a nikkah on the side because the nikkah isn't a legally binding marriage in the uk so technically it's not bigamy. And yes the nikkah could be with a Brit.

tethersphotofinish · 01/08/2012 20:42

yy- two households = two claims. One as a single parent.

Absolutely no different to wife/OW unless the benefits agency believe the husband is living at the household of the wife claiming as a single parent. In which case, can the other wife then claim as a single parent? Can the benefits agency decide one person is resident in two households?

Dawndonna · 01/08/2012 20:51
Biscuit Biscuit Biscuit
nailak · 01/08/2012 21:30

yeah what if the man is spending equal time in both households?

OP posts:
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