To think that school uniform policies can be a little ott?

[anditwasallyellow]

Probably in the minority here.

I agree with the principle of a uniform but I think sometimes they are a little impractical and uncomfortable. Cannot see the point in blazers, blazer and work style trousers you are basically in a suit which is hardly the most comfortable thing to wear all day. And ties, especially for small children, ds new school has a tie policy even for the reception kids, it's on a bit of string!

My school had a great uniform a school tracksuit which consisted of a sweatshirt with the school logo, polo shirt underneath and sweatshirt trousers, looked awful but we were all the same and it was comfy and practical. Summer uniform was summer dresses for the girls and polo shirt and sweatshirt style shorts for the boys.

Bullies will pick on anything so if it wasn't uniform it would be something else.

At my dss school the blazers were blue, vile and expensive,

My dds look awful in school uniform as they try to hitch up skirts and hitch down trousers.

All of mine look fantastic at the weekends when they dress themselves.

"With a uniform there's less focus on clothes, so more creativity and thought can be channelled into learning and other areas of expression."

This is a commonly held myth about uniform and creativity. Creativity does not, however, work that way. Wearing your own clothes (but not wearing logos etc), albeit to a fairly relaxed dress code, would be the best way to optimise creativity among pupils.

I think a uniform means there is more focus on clothes, personally. It makes the whole thing into an issue when it need not be one.

Schools in most other countries, including most of the US and continental Europe, do fine without uniforms. They are not necessary for classroom discipline.
I taught at an FE college for years, mainly 16-19 age group, and the lack of uniform made no difference. For most of that, I taught animal care. Behaviour depended on the individual, not whether they were in their workwear, which was mostly a kind of uniform from the college.

I agree TheSmallClanger, my DCs attended primary in NL where uniform was limited to the British School IIRC. I dont think anyone refers to the Dutch as being stupid or undisciplined despite their not wearing school uniform.

Certainly my experience was that the rest of Europe thought that the British were a bit mad and, quite frankly, odd for insisting on school uniform!

I grew up and went through the school system in the Netherlands. Schools with uniforms are extremely rare (usually only International Schools) and I never encountered, either in my own school or via friends in other schools, any of the sort of discipline issues or brand-related bullying that people say will occur along with the sky falling if schoolchildren don't wear ties and blazers. The only person in my secondary school I ever recall getting bullied for her clothes in a sustained fashion was a girl whose parents insisted on sending her and her siblings to school in torn, stained pyjamas, and the school came down on that harder than a freight train falling from a height (and clearly that family had much greater issues than a lack of fashion sense; her appearance did improve so I think the school got them some help).

I'm afraid that we do, as a general rule, think that the British are at best a little odd and at worst utterly stuck up and oldfashioned for ascribing so much importance to making children look like mini-adults in poorly made office clothing.

That is, the school came down hard on the bullying, not on the poor lass' clothes, seeing as her clothes didn't actually break any school rules (the only one governing appearance was 'nothing obscene to be worn', meant to cover offensive slogans and clothing more suitable for strip clubs, not that anyone ever tried)

Haberdashery I wasn't scruffy as a teen and stuck to the school uniform rules, as did the majority of pupils, so don't think I've changed at all. I think having a tracksuit as a uniform encourages slovenly dress, and you wouldn't get used to wearing more formal clothing, such as a suit, shirt and tie which may also required at work, and certainly for an interview.

Similar experience Naoko!

I will have a look on the internet tonight to see if I can see when school uniform came in in the UK. I have a feeling that it is fairly modern (ie 20th century).

The whole thing about putting small children in inappropriate uniform clothing is fairly modern. Apparently the tradition of short trousers for small boys dates back to Baden Powell - who was definitely at the 'odd' end of the scale! Keeping ones knees chilly was 'healthy' or something. I can only say Ho Hum!

Is this a state or private school?

At state schools uniforms have to be widely available for reasonable cost.

At my DC's school they have to wear navy trousers/skirt, red polo shirt or long sleeve t-shirt or polo neck and navy cardigan or sweatshirt or v neck. Navy socks tights or leggings for girls under skirts etc. Nothing with logos. I think this is a good balance for primary school kids - ie all easily available and inexpensive.

I hate uniform. It makes Britain the laughing stock of Europe. No uniform in the majority of European countries - and most of them do far better than we do in educational outcomes.

Oh, and as for the 'uniforms as preparation for the world of work' - what about those who stay on at 6th form? None of the 6th forms in my area have uniform - so you keep them in their blazers until 16, then let them wear their own clothes until they leave school and through university - where's the logic in that???

I'm laughing at all the people who genuinely believe that a school uniform improves behaviour. Obviously, all these child who grow up in other places around the world without uniform, are thugs who riot, bully and don't achieve academically.

Its one of those myths that makes me want to revoke my passport, for the sheer stupidity of our Britishness.

I couldn't have thought of anything worse than a tracksuit for school, I can only imagine how scruffy the children would look as well as that awful washed out look when people wash tracksuits on a high temp!

I like proper uniforms, my DS2 has a tie and blazer. I do feel they are a bit OTT on the PEkits for a 4 year old though - he has a 'games' kit (shorts, tshirt, jumper, tracksuit bottoms, white socks) plus a football kit (shorts, t shirt, football socks) and has to have white trainers for games and black football trainers for football. His feet have grown 2 sizes since October so I have a feeling this year may be an expensive one!

DS1 has white tshirt, blues shorts and £1.99 plimsolls for PE - much better!

I agree that school uniforms can be impractical and uncomfortable.

Personally, I am very against school uniforms. I don't think that it removes the competitiveness as many schools have lots of non-uniform days to raise money.

Furthermore, I think that it is all part of growing up to give children a say in how they dress themselves and I think that it is important that they feel comfortable in their clothes.

It is not surprising that many UK schools insist on logo-ed uniforms as they are a big money spinner for them.

would it be possible to post a link to a school website with a tracksuît uniform .i have never séén such a thing!

I hate all school uniform.

Anyone who thinks that school uniform makes all children look equal is deluded.

axure - While the idea of tracksuits don't appeal to me, I have to ask how it encourages slovenly clothing? Anymore than other sports wear? I wear jodhpurs and a hoodie most days (damned british weather! Should be a t-shirt by now!) And I'm perfectly capable of dressing formally. As are the many children I know who wear equestrian sports wear most days.

usualsuspect I agree. If anything I think it makes the c"scruffy" children stand out more.

I approve of school uniforms 100%. The stricter the better. Ours was sold solely in the school shop, secondhand alongside new, so no-one had any excuses. (Funnily enough, the only kids with brand new uniforms were the rich foreigners and the ones on assisted places).

We had a hundred different rules, right down to indoor shoes and outdoor shoes, and hems that had to touch the floor when we knelt (which we had to do every morning at assembly), and had to cover our knees and our knickers when we sat crosslegged.

We weren't permitted make-up, jewellery, hair dye or nail varnish. If your hair was past your shoulders it had to be worn in a ponytail or plait.

We looked like little girls all through our school life, which is exactly what we were.

Now I see 10 year olds looking like child-prostitutes in their short shorts and ripped fishnets and want to weep for their lost innocence.

I'm not so sure I wanted my teenagers to look like little girls.

thisoldgirl you think that 10yo with shorts and ripped fishnets look like child prostitutes and consider they have lost their innocence? Why? I doubt the 10 year olds consider it the way you do. Possibly copying the fashion of older friends/relatives but with innocence intact (rare exceptions maybe).

Is it possible that this is the outlook that such a strict uniform code gave to you?
Just musing.

thisoldgirl I'll bet the dirty old men in your town just looooved your uniform. All those juicy 18-year-olds dressed up as little girls - delicious...

Another reason not to like uniform - pervs for some reason tend to think schoolgirls in blazers are sexier than schoolgirls in jeans.

We looked like little girls all through our school life, which is exactly what we were.

I went to a secondary school with no uniform at all. I think the only stipulation was that we should wear shoes with closed toes in the science lab and avoid dangly earrings (both practical and sensible requests).

We did not look like little girls throughout our school lives, as we were not. We were smallish girls, then bigger girls, then adults. And we were treated always as embryonic adults who needed to learn how to operate as such and who were deserving of respect and were able to make sensible decisions. I seem to remember that most people wore jeans/long skirts and T shirts and hoodies/jumpers/cardigans/sweatshirts. Practical, comfortable, warm, sensible clothing.

I wasn't a little girl at 16 or 17 or 18. I was an almost adult who could legally have left home or got married or joined the army. I think it is ridiculous to treat teenagers like babies. Give them responsibility so they can choose to dress appropriately. If they don't, the only person who will suffer is them, surely? What better way to give someone a start at making the kinds of choices that will benefit them than starting with something that has very few potentially awful consequences?

Funnily enough, the only kids with brand new uniforms were the rich foreigners and the ones on assisted places

Oh dear God. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that uniform doesn't remove clothes-based judgements. Poor kids.