to not want to give DP's Dad our car for a few months

[ShadowsCollideWithPeople]

DP's Mum called up DP today. Their car has died (engine problem). They want to borrow our car for then next few months (DP has a work vehicle, so we can still get around). Now normally I would say yes, except, DP's Dad has had a few knocks in his own car recently. He needs his eyes tested but will not have them tested. DP's sister phoned DP today, to tell him she was in the car when FIL had a small accident (which MIL knows nothing about). I love DP's Dad, but do not want him driving our car, or any car. How the hell do I handle this? Delicately? As MIL and FIL are prone to emotional freak-outs.

Yikes, had such a busy day (DP's Neurologist, blood tests, college work and visiting my Gran), I forgot that I had even started this thread. Sorry, I fecking hate when people start threads and don't come back to them. Am annoyed with myself for doing it!

To answer a few questions / ponderings - DP's folks can't afford the repairs on their car. Are on pensions and have no spare cash. At all. We would pay for the repairs / a second-hand car, but have a holiday coming up and need spending money - that sounds horrid, but it is booked, non canx-able, so if we don't go we will lose a good bit of money. We could help them out in about 2 months, just not right now. DP's Dad does not want to go that long without driving.

I absolutely agree with other posters. I don't think he should be driving. He will not have his eyes seen to. Has had a few knocks. Won't tell his wife this, so she insists he is totally okay to drive. If we even suggest to him that perhaps he ought not be driving, at least until he has his eyes tested and gets new glasses etc, he will freak the fuck out.

Insurance excuse will not work, as DP's Mum has suggested that they transfer his insurance over to our car.

We do have two vehicles for a reason - DP's van is owned by his employer, so we don't ever use it for non work related purposes. So technically we could get around without the car, but tbh, I would not feel right about it, and would worry that he would get a bollocking at work, if they found out. His Mum knows this too, so am still a bit cross at her for putting him on the spot. Oh, and I don't drive, so DP's folks will use that as a reason why we don't need a second vehicle.

Will take on board the advice upthread and just say 'no, that won't work for us'. We will be in the bad books for aaaages with DP's folks and his siblings, but we will just have to deal with that. Any tips on how to encourage FIL to have an eye test / stop driving though? This does worry me.

I would just say that at the very least they can't have the car without an eye test. MIL can wail and moan all she likes, but your SIL will understand. And your DP should make the statement.

But if your DP could get in trouble for driving the van for non work things, it may be worth their moaning to stand firm. Do they live far away? do they have any access to public transport? Can you and SIL arrange for transportation for shopping and all that?

Or, can you just sell them the car and have them start paying on it? that way it wouldn't be yours if he crashes it, and after your holiday you (according to your post) purchase another, either for them or yourselves?

Oh, we could definitely arrange transportation for them. They live a short distance from us, an even distance shorter from town. Between us (and DP's other 3 siblings), we could take them to do all of their shopping, etc. Except that DP's Dad doesn't want us to do this, won't allow us, wants to get around by himself. Not to mention that his other siblings wouldn't fecking help out if paid! SIL and DP would def do it though, if their Dad allowed them.

We can't sell them the car and then replace it as they cannot afford to buy our (or any) car. We could afford, in a few months (after holidays), to replace their car as we could spend a few grand on a car for them, however (this will really make us sound mean and selfish) our car cost (and is worth) quite a bit, and after years of having shitty falling apart cars, is DP's dream car which he loves. So to give them our car and buy another for us would mean DP having to give up his dream car, IYSWIM? We sound really mean and horrid, now.

Better to be in the bad books than for anyone to be put at risk. If DP's parents do not want to accept lifts, are they eligible for bus passes? Sounds as though there will be objections raised to any suggestion other than what his father wants but if he will not have an eye test and get glasses or contact lenses then he should not drive, no question.

He may realise that he should not drive but be in denial & not want to accept the loss of his faculties. Growing older and having to limit activities is very tough but when the safety of other people (including, possibly, children) is at stake, there's no other option.

It would be most unfair for you and/or your DP to be cast as the villains of the piece for refusing this favour, and completely illogical.

www.seniorsdiscounts.co.uk/money-saving-articles/free-bus-travel-in-england-national-bus-pass-scheme.html - off peak only in England and Wales.

Better in Scotland - any time of day

www.transportscotland.gov.uk/public-transport/concessionary-travel

Neither scheme allows cross-border travel.

Thanks, Inyourhippyhat. DP's Dad has a bus / travel pass, on which DP's Mum is also allowed to travel. You are so right, he will object to any suggestion other than him driving.

I do worry, as he often has his grandchildren in the car (DP's sister won't allow her children to travel in his car any-more, though). I can understand the unwillingness to accept the loss of his faculties / independence - although he is only in his early sixties, so could probably manage the situation were he willing to see his GP.

We are in Ireland, and his pass allows him to travel across the border, which he needs, as he is part of a cross-border organisation. Fuck, that sounds like he is in the IRA or something, but he is actually runs a sporting group that is part of a cross-border, cross-community project.

I agree that it would be wrong for DP and I to be painted as the villains. Sadly, that is what will happen. Dp's siblings for the most part, just pass responsibility on to us.

'Better to be in the bad books than for anyone to be put at risk'. This I agree with wholeheartedly. Ultimately, if DP's sibs want to make us the bad guys, if his folks want to get cross at us, well, what you said above is the most important thing. Thanks, hippy.

Shadows I totally get what you are saying about your finally having a nice car that they could not afford! Especially don't let them have it! I finally have a nice car, after driving half-dead beaters most of my life, and it's delightful and I am very possessive of it.

FIL will just have to either suck it up and let someone drive him, or suck it up and go to the GP. It could be something that is easily resolved, you know, so that he could drive safely, even with GCs.

I don't think you're being unreasonable or horrible about it, just practical. And under no circumstances are you to loan him your lovely car!

And Hippy is right, better the safe villains than them injured. I'm sorry DP's sibs are such lazy turds.

Thanks, monster. Annoying thing is, DP's Dad's GP is my GP, and he is amazing and understanding and very helpful. So no excuse for DP's Dad not to see him, except his unwillingness to seek help.

DP's sibs are mostly okay, but his younger brother is an utter giant lazy turd. Has more money than the rest of us put together, whinges constantly about how poor he is, bitches about all of his family, who helped him out when he needed help. Will never, ever help his parents. Has driven his parents to despair. Many times. Sorry, this has turned into a big 'Shadow's Vent' thread. But he is absolutely the definition of a cunt.

Shadow, I have one of those in my family, though he isn't the rich one, but still feels like everyone needs to do his bidding. I'm guessing he'll be the first one to slag you off for not helping DP's Da. And the last to actually lift a finger to help.

I'm sorry you've got one in the family.

He wants a car but can't afford to buy one and expects you and yr dh go give up yours or finance a new one ?
You don't want to do the first and can't afford to do the second right now - so unfortunately like the rest of us who would like things we can't afford he will have to suck it up.
Really though if they cant afford to buy one and would be reliant on family to provide the finances how would they afford the running costs ?

I'm not sure they can insure it as you can't usually insure something you don't own as you have no financial interest in it.

Even if they could how do you know they would have the same level of insurance as you do, and in reality how would they afford it?

If they only had an old beat up banger and want to use your newer nicer more expensive (presumably) car then it's going to cost more. (fully comp excesses etc).

His insurance probably only covers him 3rd party to drive another car he doesn't own (thats to protect other drivers not him or the car owner) So unless he is a named driver of that car on the owners policy i doubt he would be insured and even if he was it should only be for occasional use - which it's not going to be. If he was intending on keeping it at his house overnight for the duration of the loan it probably would invalidate your insurance too.

It would be a no from me well before you consider his eye sight problems, but if you know about that it's got to be a definate no.

There's a higher than normal risk he could have a bump and there's a real risk your car will be under insured.

They shouldn't put you in that position. I wouldn't let them use it for months.

DP got a new car last week and I didn't even want his mum to use it for the day. She did end up doing, mounted the kerb first try.

I don't get this car loaning malarkey, it would never occur to me or my family to ask or offer. It's not like asking for a loan of £50 till payday, these are £000 assets!

I think they are B very U to even ask, so yanbu in the least to say no!

And you really couldn't manage without it OP. No way should your DP risk pissing off his employer or ultimately risk losing his job by using his work vehicle for domestic use. He will not be permitted to use it privately for tax and insurance reasons, if he were to have a bump the game would be up!

Could you say DH has already had a warning for using his work vehicle for non work purposes, and if he does it again could be fired?

So you need your car but would be happy to get shopping and so on for them.

I know it's a lie, but it would save you arguing with them as surely they wouldn't put their son's job in danger? And if he isn't meant to use his van outside of work anyway it is a risk he could be fired for misconduct

You aren't villains. If your family think you are villains because you won't give someone your car for several months (it will be giving them it for several months not really loaning it because cars depreciate rapidly so in 6 months when you get it back it will be worth alot less and not the same as when you lent it) a loan which is worth several hundred pounds and not free at all then they are a nasty bunch best avoided.
So far you haven't listed anything that would explain why your parents need for a car at their beck and call is greater than yours. You have kids, they don't.
Add in the fact that you don't think he's safe to drive and I don't see why you're worrying about saying no at all.
"Of course you can't have it we use the car alot that's why we have 2. I also think FIL needs to get his eyes tested as his driving isn't as good these days".
I think asking for someone else's car for several months is extremely rude. I presume it sits unused on your drive most of the time to make them think this is possible, in which case maybe don't replace it as it sounds as though you are wasting alot of money. You either need 2 cars or you don't.

If your husband isn't supposed to use his works vehicle for non-works stuff, which presumably he isn't, they will be leaving you without a car.

Don't worry about complaining siblings - if they're not prepared to help then they shouldn't moan.

I think "no". is your answer, but with a promise to give them lifts to the supermarket etc. when you can, and maybe to help them to buy a new car after your holiday.

We have two cars, I wouldn't lend one to someone for "a few months", especially if they were potentially dangerous on the roads. I can't imagine anyone in my family being entitled enough to ask.

Actually the more I think about this, the more I think your DP and his sister should stage an intervention. It is absolutely unacceptable that your FIL is being such a fucking baby about having an eyesight test and endangering others.

If he has some serious degenerative eye disease, early intervention could ameliorate or halt the progress of the condition. If he leaves it, he could lose his vision entirely. Or alternatively he might kill or injure someone first by driving a car when he can't see properly.

It's not only dangerous to drive with poor eyesight, it's illegal and probably means that his insurance is invalid if it is found that he knew he had bad eyesight and carried on driving anyway.

In a way, it might be a good thing that this has happened because it gives you a bit of breathing space to make him see reason before he next gets behind the wheel.

When I worked in insurance (a long time ago) you couldn't insure a car unless you were the owner/registered keeper which means your FIL wouldn't be able to transfer your DP car to his own policy.

You can contact the DVLA for advice if you think he's dangerous. They may advise you to report him anonymously. They would then review the evidence and may send himfor a fitness to drive test. I know that it could be difficult for him to avoid thinking it's you that's done it, however how would you feel if he injured someone?

" If we even suggest to him that perhaps he ought not be driving, at least until he has his eyes tested and gets new glasses etc, he will freak the fuck out."
Let him. The more details you give, the worse it looks. Your PIL are willing to have your DH bollocked, end therefore his job security put at risk? No way. And if he wants to freak at you, I'd freak right back. It usually throws that type completely off guard (which is quite fun to see and also overcomes the adrenalin-fuelled fight-or-flight response to his freaking).

DowagersHump makes a very good point there. You say he's only in his sixties, so should his sight really be that bad so soon? He's a danger to himself and others if he continues without getting it checked.

I'd also consider blackmailing him with telling your MIL about all the accidents he's had and not told her about, if he doesn't get his eyes checked. Or even just telling her anyway, and letting her get on his back about it. Whichever you think would work best; because he must have a reason for not telling her, so there's a lever point right there.

"If we even suggest to him that perhaps he ought not be driving, at least until he has his eyes tested and gets new glasses etc, he will freak the fuck out."

I agree with WHereYouLeftIt - let him freak out. Clearly this touches a nerve and he knows he needs an eye test and he is possibly scared of the results. He will be freaking out about getting old and the potential loss of independence if he can't drive. But it sounds like he is probably a danger on the road, to himself, his wife and goodness knows who else. So he's going to freak out - so what. Clearly he needs his eyes tested before driving again.

It would be wrong and immoral to enable this person to drive, knowing he has eyesight issues and without insisting he gets them addressed first.

We're sharing our car with FIL at the moment due to an unexpeced situation, and even though I trust him with the car, get on well with him, do hand the car over when he needs to work, and the reason he's not got his is sort of his fault, it's still a strain.

It's summer, London (by train) is off limits because of the Games, and we're living in a benighted 'burb where some "nearby" activities are off limits without a car, thanks to inadequate footpaths (I'm fit enough to trundle the DC over a mile, but that's less easy in the rain, when DS moans!)

That's only sharing, and it's over soon!

But that's all irrelevant (irrelevant not least because it will make you feel guilty), beside the safety issue. Your PILs' car's dying is the only chance you're going to get for years to stop FIL driving. The only good chance. The other chances to stop him driving all involve another crash, in which one or more cars will be damaged, and someone or someones hurt.

So they want your car for a few months, but tell you that they refuse to check whether it is actually safe or legal for them to drive, and you are asking if you are being unreasonable. Lets put it this way, woudl you lend the car to someone you knew would drink and drive? Driving with bad eyesight is just as bad, and is just as likely to kill someone, and not only will the insurance not pay up if they discover this, but if he hurts someone he will be in trouble with the police. Just tell them that you need it, do not go into details. If they nag, perhaps casually mention that you did not think he would still be driving as isn't it against the law to drive with bad eyesight?

You can also tell the DVLA that he is driving with bad eyesight.

I?m guessing from what you?ve said about DP?s ?dream car? it has a bit more poke than FIL?s previous ride. Do you really want to let him loose on the roads with a big car that he is unused to driving with potentially shit eyeshit? Recipe for disaster my friend; I?m making a mental note to avoid the border region for the next few weeks.

Might be time to fill in MIL about his most recent scrapes, see how he dodges that bullet.