to think that women are their own worst enemies when..

[petitmort]

it comes to achieving equal treatment, respect and status with men?

I'm thinking olympic beach volleyball for starters

FFS, female athletes can't win. Healthy, vibrant and feminine? How dare they wear clothes that show off their toned muscles and sunkissed skin. Those bodies have been earned.

Sporty but not girly? Explain yourself to the IOC and undergo humiliating gender testing.

Fut you're right some women don't like the blatent sexualisation...but some women will also use that as an excuse because they just don't like their partners admiring their bodies.

I don't see why such a fuss is made about the volleyball team tbh they dont wear much less than track athletes but IMO its the men who act all juvenile about it 'phwoar women playing in bikinis'

I was watching the volleyball with my husband and grandad yesterday. Both of them joked about the camera angles and how it wasn't a very British outfit (longjohns and waterproofs being more appropriate :o)

Then the swimming came on and the women were not 'done up' at all, all looked very unglamorous in their swimming caps and goggles, and the long swimsuits. But what a great way to show young girls what is aspirational! All these female athletes (and I am including volleyball of course) doing something which involves such hard work and dedication. They are all amazing and good luck to them!

I don't see the difference between them and the athletes either

But for the record, I've heard more bitch comments about them from women than I've heard juvenile comments from men.

It was the same when the Oscars were on, threads with hundreds of posts by women slagging off the appearance of other women.

Yet somehow, men get the blame for the lack of female self esteem

Ive heard plenty of juvenile comments from men- and the reporting that mention the costumes being sexy/revealing/skimpy etc seem to be reported on from a male slant.

I totally agree with Worra - theres no difference to what they wear and what the athletes wear and yes, I hear far more derogatory comments from women than men.

So Worra are you honestly telling me you havent heard men slagging off the apperance of females? Rating them as good/bad/worthy/unworthy in terms of their bodies etc?
You honestly telling me if you went on a forum mostly visited by males there would be no such thing? No such 'shes too fat to dress like that' 'body off baywatch ace of crimewatch' 'phwooarr look at those birds in their volleyball outfits' type comments? If you tell me no you are naieve to say the least.
What I never seem to see on the flipside though is threads/pages of comments revolving around ridiculing the appeareance/bodies of men though- strangely enough

No Fut that's not what I'm saying at all.

Of course men make derogatory comments about women...and women of course make derogatory comments about men.

But I have seen far, far more bitchy comments aimed at the appearance of women by women...and no not just on female dominated forums.

And women dont do the same? May i draw your attention to

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1529071-to-introduce-you-to-some-Olympic-Eye-candy?msgid=33239597

maybe you should go and tell them that they are being sexist and shouldnt be making comment on the mens penis lines

Those men are obviously idiots though so who on earth would take notice or care what they say or think!!

They wear what they want to wear - they were given the chance to wear tracksuits if the temperature dipped below 16 and they said no, we want to wear our standard outfits!! Good on them, why should they let a bunch of bigots control how they dress!

what silly ill informed and irritating post

male althletes also wear similar

In fact male swimmers, UGH! women swimmers are far more modest!

as as for saying "women" in the collective sense, like we all TOLD them to wear that

I could say ruder, but am restraining myself............

I hear far more slagging off of women's appearance by other women than I do from men.

Yet somehow, men get the blame for the lack of female self esteem

a very wise woman
women bitch and moan about other women teenage girls bitch about other teenage girls THIS IMO IS THE PROBLEM not men oggiling somebody in a skimpy bikini perhaps we should look at ourselves for women feeling inferior and not good enough ,

FutTheShuckUp if you are referring to my comment - why is that catty? She is not lads mags material nor I'm sure would she want to be. She focussed on her sport not trying to look good with fake tan, fake breasts etc. But if she had done that and had posed for lads mags it wouldn't be an issue as that would be HER CHOICE. People should be able to look how they want and not be constantly judged for it IMO.

*And women dont do the same? May i draw your attention to

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1529071-to-introduce-you-to-some-Olympic-Eye-candy?msgid=33239597

maybe you should go and tell them that they are being sexist and shouldnt be making comment on the mens penis lines*
...

Which is fine and great but I don't for a minute believe that the sexualisation, ogling, or sexual objectification of men in any way belittles or undermines their position in society.

I don't think letching over men or showing topless or nude pictures of men in any way redresses the economic and power imbalances between the sexes in society.

Win/Win for them I think.

Cause when you're when on top - as men are and always have been - what exactly do you lose by having women lust and slobber over you?

Nothing! - no skin off their noses and it then gives them enhanced carte blanche to do the same again to women - who unfortunately ARE undermined and disadvantaged by their sexual objectification in society.

I do think it was but shit of venue playing the Ben hill theme tune the other day while they were playing....and fat bottomed girls by queen. I kid younot

I didn't know that keely027 that is crass beyond belief

daughter and i were comparing the outfits worn by male beach volleyball players, with those worn by females. wearing more can't restrict movement too much or the men wouldn't do it. so the women must just wear less because they want to attract a particular audience. why not go further? a thong and pasties should be fine...

petitmort

Win/Win for them I think.

Cause when you're when on top - as men are and always have been - what exactly do you lose by having women lust and slobber over you?

Nothing! - no skin off their noses and it then gives them enhanced carte blanche to do the same again to women - who unfortunately ARE undermined and disadvantaged by their sexual objectification in society.

So objectification of men, by women, is OK because all men like it and they benefit, but objectification of women, by men, is bad because all women hate it and they suffer for it?

Jesus wept. If this is an example of the current state of feminist thinking, then I weep for the whole movement. You've basically created a stereotype of 'woman as victim' and deny anything that contradicts that. And that stereotype is so reactionary and sexist it could have come from the mouths of the Victorians.

The Benny Hill theme tune is played while the courts are being raked as quickly as possible between play.

It is a joke about the running around and not sexist at all !

I agree with you lovebunny.

I also wonder why it is that the female volleyball players wear such skimpy outfits. If it is for range of movement, greater flexibility, whatever, why don't the male players play in just speedos? Or the gymnasts perform in a bikini?

I personally feel the bikinis undermine the players and their sport. I don't like the ogling and leering that always seems to predominate with talking about female beach volleyballers. I even get irritated by the knowing twinkle in the eye that some male commentators get when they say 'and now to the female beach volleyball...'

I don't know if this makes me anti-feminist or even stridently feminist in some eyes and I don't really care.

But I do feel the bikinis detract from what should be about top level playing of a sport by the best female players in the world.

totally agree willnever. their outfits are not much skimpier than the athletes but there sport is kind of giggled at and 'oooooh its the beach volllyball' kind of way. if i was as dedicated and had worked as hard as those girls at what they do i would want me and my sport taken more seriously. (hope this makes sense, i am not the most eloquent)

Well I'm loving the rowing, big men in Lycra.....what's not to love????? Guess that makes me sexist, but I can live with that......

daughter and i were comparing the outfits worn by male beach volleyball players, with those worn by females. wearing more can't restrict movement too much or the men wouldn't do it. so the women must just wear less because they want to attract a particular audience. why not go further? a thong and pasties should be fine...

So the women must just wear less because they want to attract a particular audience?

Maybe, just maybe they wear less for their own comfort...because they want to dress in the beach wear they're happy/cooler in?

Or are you suggesting the same thing applies to the children in the gymnastics team, if wearing less to attract a particular audience is the only thing you can think of? Some of their outfits showed the bottom of their bum cheeks and are quite high on the leg

I don't see how anyone can reach these conclusions unless they've played the sport themselves.