to think that taxpayer funded schools SHOULD use qualified teachers?

[TalkinPeace2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19017544

So Academies are now free to leave our children to be taught by cheap unqualified people
potentially jeapordising their chances at competing with the best in the world
just because the Dfe is determined to break the unions and the LEAs, not because of any sound educational reasons.

i've never had to spell that before. was i right?

...but do the high achievers who do TeachFirst remain in teaching?

Are there any figures on that or is it too soon to tell?

Yes - t,h,a,t.

Oh, I see!

Nope, it's 'megalomaniac'. Lucky there was a qualified English teacher on hand; you might've had to resort to Google otherwise.

I think you're over glamourising him, though. He's just a silly little man with limited life experience & a short parliamentary window in which to make his mark. Other than appearing on Google as 'Gove is an idiot', obv.

I DO know that even on a PGCE course, teachers that are very good with the children, but have a frankly SHOCKING command of literacy, can get through the course. I am thinking of the NQT that DS1 had in Y1, whose spelling was so bad that my DS1 was correcting the spelling sheets she was sending home for the DC to learn. 'Seeside' for 'seaside' anyone? And her Grammar is so bad that in the 5 years she has been a qualified teacher for, in a Primary that routinely shuffles teachers between Foundation, KS1 and KS2, she is the ONLY teacher not to have taught KS2 at least once.

I'm not saying that she is a terrible teacher, pastorally and with the DC's that have SEN's, she is amazing. But how can someone with such a bad grip on the English language pass a PGCE?

I have to say though, the thought of an unqualified teacher teaching any of my DC's from September when both the Primary and the Secondary become Academies fills me with horror.

As a parent, I truly believe that the best person to teach is one that has gained a teaching qualification.

I can't imagine for a minute that someone unqualified would be able to take my DS1's Y6 class and be able to effectively differentiate for the 1/6 of their class that is working a full 3 YEARS ahead of their chronological age, while at the same time manage to also differentiate effectively for the two pupils working a full 3 years behind their chronological age, and everyone else in the middle.

And as for someone unqualified teaching my DS2's Y4 class - GOOD LUCK! Three with Autism, one of whom also has ADHD. Four with EASL, all different first languages - as diverse as Urdu, Polish, Nepalese and an African language whose name I have forgotten. Three boys with behavioural issues (on top of the one with ADHD). Two TA's in the class as standard, one for the lad with a 1-2-1 statement, one for all the others with needs.

And every other class in this year group is the same, it has the highest proportion of SEN, EASL and BD's that the school has ever dealt with. It's hard work volunteering as a parent helper in this year group, let alone trying to get an unqualified teacher to TEACH them anything.

They'd be so lacking in classroom management skills that no-one would learn a THING.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the sort of thing I can see the God-awful HT of the primary doing, putting unqualified teachers in to teach the most difficult year groups. So far, 3 QUALIFIED teachers have left after having this year group with little to no SLT support. One took early retirement, one moved to Australia (!) and one moved on to another school after spending 8 years at this school. If an unqualified teacher leaves, the HT will just get another in to take their place.

I WILL be watching this situation very closely.

"...but do the high achievers who do TeachFirst remain in teaching?"

The scheme has been going longer than I thought. It began in academic year 02/03, so there ought to be some data on how long the early joiners are sticking around for. It went beyond London in 2006, and by 2007 it was in the Top Ten of UK Graduate Employers.

The high school my DS will be starting in Sep was one of the first schools to use teach first.

And 10 years later they still use them. And still very much rave over them in the schools publicity.

The school has also improved massively over the last 10 years.

My only experience of Teach First was in an inner city London school in 2003-4. We had two in the English/Drama dept. both ultra keen and did OK with the massive amount of support they had in the first year (reduced timetables, mentoring, help with planning etc) but both left in their second year- one had some level of breakdown part way through, after which the other left too. Clearly this is just one example and I am not saying it is typical, but those two bright young things cost the school a hell of a lot, given that neither were on a full timetable at first, had to have other teachers looking after them and then didn't complete the first year when they were on full duties. The pieces had to be picked up.

That's interesting, Edith; didnt realise it had been going for so long. So there must be some data somewhere...

Indigo, does your son's school retain the TeachFirst staff for a long time? Or do they move on?

I don't know. But the school appears to have very low staff turnover.

Head of Maths is a teach first teacher who stayed on......

I'd love to find figures which could say whether he was the rule or the exception, Indigo.

This is what I could find:

XX High was one of Teach First?s first partner schools, joining in 2003. That year, just 29% of students had achieved five or more A to C grades at GCSE ? 17% with English and maths. One year later, the proportion of pupils gaining five or more A to C grades rose to 35% - 24% with English and maths. Last year, 88% of Uxbridge High students gained five or more A* to C grades at GCSE, 64% with English and maths.

Since the partnership began, 29 Teach First participants and ambassadors have taught at XX, with 13 current members of staff.

So looks like a bit less than 1 in 2 teach first teachers have stayed on.....

Thanks Indigo, is that from your DS' school?

'Surely if unqualified teachers are as good as qualified teachers, they should receive the same pay? If they did, heads might not be so keen to employ them.'

tethers has hit the nail on the head right there...this is all about money, reducing the amount actually spent on teaching children and privatising education.

Inidigo

it doesn't say that 1 in 2 stay on it says that 29 teach first participants have been through the school.

It says 29 have been through the school - and 13 of them are still there.

Mr Gove says he likes the Finnish system - but it has the strictest Teacher qualification rules in Europe.

He misses the point that
ANYBODY can teach a small cohort of interested children.
ONLY a trained person can keep the interest of kids who cannot see the point of being there

and the ONLY way the UK will maintain its worldwide competitiveness is by working on the latter as otherwise they will drag the former down.

it says "with 13 members of staff"

not that 13 are still there.
or with 13 members of staff staying on.

You may know that 13 are still there but that is not what your statement says.

It says 13 current members of staff.

There are numerous routes into teaching from a BEd to Teach First. If you are good and have a passion for teaching surely you would research the route best suited to you and go for it.

I teach and I'm aware of shrinking budgets. It wouldn't just be the ruthless headteacher who looks at saving money with non qts staff, lots might be looking at is as an option alongside less in class support, larger class sizes, fewer extra curricular opportunities, fewer lessons that rely on more than paper and pen etc.

yes it says 13 members of current staff have participated in first start.

Many academies are inner city comps. Teaching in these schools (I taught in Manchester schools for 6 yrs) is not overly about subject knowledge - it's about being a motivator, an organiser, a sergeant major, a mum, a social worker and a police woman! If you pass your QTS after a year in one of these schools it's because you survived! I am a high-achieving academically minded graduate but quite honestly, I was not called upon to use these skills whilst teaching in these schools. I worked with several 'academic' types and they all quit/failed/got asked to move on because, quite frankly, subject knowledge is just not enough. The other teaching skills tested by QTS status such as planning good lessons, dealing with challenging behaviour, holding the kids' attention and teaching so that every child in the class can make progress are essential.

If you are an unqualified teacher in a posh private school, you won't have to deal with serious behaviour issues form the pupils (ie being attacked by them etc) so your subject knowledge is enough. Also these kids are coming from backgrounds which value education and will have pushy parents and access to tutors and other enriching activities.

An unqualified teacher in an academy like (say) Manchester Academy - formerly one of the lowest achieving schools in England, is entirely another matter. Kids at a school like this have a limited opportunity to move out of poverty - they bloody well deserve teachers who are qualified to the hilt and that means excellent academic and pedagogical skills PROVEN by paper qualifications. These kids need the best teachers of all - not a TA on the cheap.Furthermore, it means teachers who love their job and receive the motivation to keep coming into work every day because they are valued by their employers and that means APPROPRIATE PAY.

All Gove is doing is fucking the teachers (and the unions) and widening the chance for children in deprived areas to gain social mobility like the Tory scumbag he is.

doh! not 'widening' but obviously' lessening'