AIBU to want to scream idiot at the next person

[helloclitty]

who uses the term "hard working person" in regard to tradesmen in the cash in hand tax avoidance debate.
I have heard many people saying leave the hard working people (tradesmen) alone they're just trying to make ends meet and target the rich.
Is the general consensus that people who earn high salaries are less hard working than people who earn less?

beejezus.

"The thing is if you take 100,000 average hard working tradesmen they don't have 21 trillion hidden away from the tax system, unlike the 100,000 super rich that do, so deal with that first then come back and lecture us on the morality of tax avoidance.."

This is one of the thousands of stupid comments circulating all over websites today.

The MP in question was actually answering a specific question on whether it is ok for tradepeople to get paid cash in hand. He was answering a bloody question.

bejeezus I've heard it said in RL many times tbh. I'm not just going on the word of someone on a forum.

For example, my neighbour's son is a mobile mechanic who works from home. He offers every single person I know who uses him a discount for cash. When I have questioned this I've heard 'he's only a young lad trying to make his way in the world', 'it's only a few quid here and there', well if he's willing to give up his weekends to do the car then why not?' etc.etc. My DM worked for the council housing department and many of the painters, decorators etc. did jobs on the side using council equipment and materials - appartantly ok 'because the council don't pay much'.

Obviously the OP has heard things like this too. I wish I didn't but I do and it angers me. I get especially annoyed with the council workers because I live in a very deprived area and my council can ill afford to lose any materials.

I don't think that OS a stupid comment at all

And still I ask, who had said it is ok for tradrspeople to avoid tax?

Do you really believe paying in cash is immoral? If you don't have a bank card or a cheque book you are immoral?

Tories are certainly doing another number on the working classes here aren't they? Double edged sword

YANBU

Good point loopy

bejeezus
Do you really believe paying in cash is immoral? If you don't have a bank card or a cheque book you are immoral?

I really don't understand this comment, no-one has said you can't pay by cash, they're are talking about tradesmen asking for cash payment to avoid paying tax. Not simply a method of payment.

No one is talking about the person paying in cash - we all do that sometimes. I don't have a cheque book. There's a difference between paying in cash because that is how you want to pay and paying in cash because you've agreed a discount in full knowledge that the person won't declare that income. You know that's the issue - not cash payments per se.

OK, so he was answering a question, to which he clearly replied that no, it's not OK for tradespeople to get paid cash in hand, IF they then do not pay tax.

But it's OK for him to use tax payers money to pay his stamp duty.

Double standards.

Disclaimer : He was cleared of any wrong doing, with regards to the stamp duty. So I guess that makes it alright.

Why so angry about this, helloclitty ? Like others, I feel that anyone who doesn't pay the correct amount of tax should be made to. But MPs making sweeping statements about other people when they clearly abuse the system to suit their own ends is not on.

I worked for Customs & Excise 100 years ago in the seventies and the basic income turnover before registering for VAT was £35,000. It must be more than that now. I pay cash to my window cleaner (£12 a go) and, when I had a gas boiler installed, I paid that man cash, too (£2500). Perhaps the boiler man should was registered for VAT but his outgoings would have cost him a lot so why should I stand in his way? If he asks for £2500 cash, why should I ask questions? I received good service although I don't know why he wouldn't come to do an annual service.

Since when did being paid cash mean you don't pay tax
Tbh I think this is all just to get people focused on the poorer people again, let's forget about the higher paid people and their tax avoidance. But let's all focus on the poorer or self employed and assume that because their paid cash. Something shifty is going on.

TBH I have thought this for a while. I hear people in real life (so sorry Bejeezus I can't send you a link!) and on forums screaming about MP's stamp duty, benefit cheats, the rich evading tax etc etc but so many people are happy to get a discount to pay cash in hand knowing that the trades person is actually avoiding tax.
To me that's hypocritical. Many people are quick to buy a bargain down the local pub, which they know has been nicked and they moan when their house is broken into.

These types of minor tax avoidance or bargain hunting are IMO just as bad morally as the rich tax evading.

Posted to slowly,
But my point is, this is now gonna have everyone eyeing up their neighbors thinking "hey hes paid cash in hand! I bet his not paying his tax"

Boyswillgrow

So you think that everyone who gets paid cash and offers discounts for cash pays all their tax? Really

Rule a company has to turn over something in the region of 45k to be VAT registered. That doesn't mean sole traders earning less don't pay anything. They still have to register and pay income tax in ni accordingly.

Hello are you saying everyone that deals in cash is avoiding tax?

Paradise

Of course I'm not saying anyone who gets paid in cash is avoiding tax but SOME are. I have a business which is cash based but I declare my earnings and don't start a sales pitch with I'll knock off x amount for cash!

And I might add that many self employed "hardworking" tax dodgers are not on the bread line and are actually taking money away from the poorest of our society on PAYE minimum/low wage jobs. Yes, the rich should not be doing it either but nor should the "hard working" people.

In answer to your OP, I think you are unreasonable, and I would happily 'scream 'idiot'' at you

bejeezus

helloclitty

I think you need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, it won't change the system, or the people who abuse it.

As long as you are handling your affairs in the correct manner, why worry about others ?

Life's too short to get so het up about things you can't realistically change.

take your pick.

Who says that? What an odd thing for anyone to say. I must admit i have been guilty of paying 'cash in hand' from time to time. I happen to know a lot of tradesmen - most of them in the building trade like DH was - but more often than not we'd pay them officially or DH would buy them a pint or two to say thanks. Cash in hand is simply a way of offering a slightly cheaper deal to friends, a form of 'mate's rates'. IME tradesmen don't offer cash in hand deals or mates rates to everyone. Is tax avoidance wrong? Yes. Do I think it's as bad for someone to offer mates rates when they put up a fence in a back garden, as it is for MPs to fix their expenses? No. Would I stand up and give a spirited defence of the hard-working tradesmen (cue horny-handed son of toil turning his cap in his hands and looking deferential) avoiding tax? No. I can't imagine anyone doing such a thing.

£77,000 is the VAT threshold at present.

I've had tradesmen asking for cash. Not cash in hand but cash because if you pay by cheque it cost them for every cheque they put to the bank (You know all this stuff about business account etc...) and they are loosing money.

I do not have any issue with it tbh. --especially with the window cleaner, £5 or my hairdresser, £13....)

What I DO have an issue with is what some newspaper were saying today aka that we, as ordinary people, should not pay in cash because we are allowing (?) tradesmen to avoid tax by doing so.....

I know I bang on about this all the time on here, but please may I re-iterate again the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion? It's really important to the debate on tax.

Tax evasion is lying to HMRC about your earnings so you don't have to pay tax on them. It's illegal and is punishable by a prison term.

There isn't an agreed definition of tax avoidance. But a workable definition that most people recognise is "entering into a scheme that delivers a tax result that is contrary to the intention of parliament when it enacted the relevant tax law". The critical thing is that tax avoidance might be immoral but it isn't illegal. If HMRC think that a scheme is wrong then they will take the taxpayer to court but not under the criminal codes. If the court agrees with HMRC then the scheme doesn't work and the taxpayer has to pay HMRC the tax that HMRC argues is due. But there are no criminal sanctions.

Think of it like this: if a person is married, and fancies a bit on the side then it's immoral to have an affair [tax avoidance] but illegal to commit bigamy [tax evasion].