ex-H, ex-outlaws - AIBU? Wise counsel needed

[PostBellumBugsy]

Try & keep this short. ex-H very difficult. Left me & kids 9 years ago when youngest was 1 for OW. He pays maintenance under duress, has been very difficult about sticking to dates, is unpleasant to me wherever possible & is generally a pain. DCs who are now 12 & 10 increasingly reluctant to stay with him every 2nd weekend - but I encourage it, as far as I can, because I think it is important for them to have a relationship with their Dad.

They have just spent their annual summer week with him & arrive back telling me that when they are due to stay with my Mum (while I have an operation) they are going to spend 2 days & 1 night with ex-H's parents. I express surprise & say that actually they are staying with Granny (who they love staying with) & she has lots planned for them, so we will have to have a think about this & talk to her. They also hand me a piece of paper with 2 dates in October written on it, to take DC1 to a concert & DC2 to the ballet separately and on separate weekends. I ask for a bit more info & get told that ex-H's parents will be taking them to these events.

ex-H phones me later in the evening & is spoiling for a fight & tells me that I need to be accommodating of his parents' wishes as they are "doing the best for the DCs". I said I was delighted that his parents wanted to do this (they have not helped out once in the last 9 years), but perhaps we could get weekends sorted out first & then they could do this on his weekends. He lost the plot completely & told me I was being unreasonable (along with alot of other much less pleasant remarks about me) & his parents were elderly & that I was making the DCs miss out.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo, need some MN input. AIBU & how would you handle this?

I don't think you should be expected to drop off and pick up the kids when going to your exe's family. He or his family come to you to pick them up.
When your kids are older they are busy with homework etc during the week so I wouldn't want to see my kids for less than every other weekend. I agree the October trip weekends should be on your exe's weekends so he does all the picking up, or arranges with you that they do. If his parents want to see the kids during the holidays then it sounds as though you'd be happy with him having the kids more so he arranges this in advance and picks the kids up and takes him to his parents, or they pick up the kids.
Them having the kids shouldn't involve extra trips for you. if they are able to take the kids for trips out then they have to make the effort to pick up and drop off the kids, or ask their son to do it.

Sorry, I misread and thought these theatre trips, whatever, were booked for the dates when DC are staying with their other grandparents. Definitely don;t back down on those, but WRT the theatre/ballet, if they have no other commitments already, what you should aim for is the outlaws doing the driving rather than you, or at least meeting half-way.

If you are happy for them to go on the outings with their grandparents contact them direct cutting out the idiot in the middle and say 'that is fantastic, they are looking forwards, what time will you be collecting them?'

Don't even make any hint that you are going to drop and collect.

If they want time with their grandchildren they can organise it.

OP, I'm not suggesting your exH comes cap in hand to you, I was more referring to the ex ILS.

TBH, your ex sounds like a dick, but the poor ILs are trying to see their GC and I can kind of sympathise with them a bit as we see so much less of my DN since the divorce.

No sorry they are at my mums. No discussions neccessary.

Other gp's in his time. You should be accommidating in shifting thigs around ( contact weeks) but i would bet you have pretty busy weekends yourself.

He can't have his cake and eat it. i would second the email contact, brief and polite.

Just be glad you didn't stay married to him.

Other gp's in his time.

I just think it's sad that a divorce means that the entire extended family on the exH's side has to be shunted into every other weekend and a summer holiday. Why should the exH's family be limited so tightly?

I am obviously biased because I am in this position. We are all (GCs, aunts, uncles, cousins, great uncles, great aunts -we're a big family!) crammed into my DBro's tight access schedule whilst his ex Wife's family see loads and loads of my DN with no limitations. It's really sad. We didn't ALL get divorced, just the couple in the centre of it.

YouOldSlag, i do sympathise. I would have gone down on my knees with gratitude had my ex-ILs offered any kind of help or visits when the DCs were younger - but funnily enough when DS was small & very autistic & really difficult to handle, no one was interested.

Now, with huge amounts of work & with me paying for all of his additional support (no help at all from ex-H) he is nice to be with & all of a sudden everyone seems to want to spend time with them both. I have to say this grates a bit as well.

Anyhow, I really appreciate all the input. I've sent an email to ex-H & we have dates agreed up to Christmas. I think ex-MIL is due to call me to discuss her plans, so I will do my best to fit in what I can with the DCs, as long as I am not treated like the unpaid chauffeur!!!!

And by the same argument Youoldslag, why should their maternal grandparents AND their mum have to live their lives around the whims of an arsey ex?

OP - good luck with sticking to your guns. I now deal directly with the ex in- laws and it makes for a much less traumatic time for the kids to cut out the maniplulative middle man.

The OP isn't saying that she will only allow her ex 1 week's holiday and every other weekend. He could ask for more of the holidays or to see his son during the week. His relatives could then see more of him. If these exinlaws want to see more of their grandson they should be asking their son to get an extra few weeks of the holidays or have 1 evening a week.

My ex MIL contact me directly, it is easy to cut out the bullshit in the middle and deal directly with the other grandparent. ( I see that I am not the only one that does this )

I would say that if his parents are elderly then suggest to them that you are worried for them that the children might be to much for them and as you are in hospital it will cause you stress where as you mum is used to the dc and you know she will cope - whereas if they have a problem you are worried about what would happen.

I would also swallow the lump in your throat and agree to the two dates for outings - if they take both dc

And by the same argument Youoldslag, why should their maternal grandparents AND their mum have to live their lives around the whims of an arsey ex?

The OP and her Mum are hardly having to live their lives around his whims. I'm talking about a ballet trip and a concert! The hospital child care demand seemed like he was just trying it on TBH, and he needs to be told that prior arrangements can't be changed once done. I would not say she has to live her life around him at all.

Also in my DBros' case, he is a great Dad who really wants to be in his DD's life as much as possible, but is often overlooked so DN's maternal GC and aunties etc can have her all the time instead. So unfair! We hardly get a look in.

OP, It must be very galling that there is only interest now your DC is "manageable" thanks to your efforts and I can see how that must smart.

I think you've done the right thing, giving the dates for the rest of the year. I can see it's the ILs who seem more interested than your ex, who seems to be a tosser.

i think you have been totally reasonable and don´t understand why you should be responsible for how xH/xPIL split their time with the DC.

and whilst I sympathise with the relations on the xH side although it isn´t a 50% split in time - a lot of the extra time you have is ´boring´ everyday routine, after school clubs, homework, trips to the shops etc and not fun filled frolics with your family members so it´s not a fair comparison anyway

Ask ex MIL to contact you directly. Or get hold of her email address. Explain that you are delighted that she wants to do things with the kids but x weekend is already booked with various arrangements. Ask her to give you other dates and tell her how much the boys will enjoy it.

and whilst I sympathise with the relations on the xH side although it isn´t a 50% split in time - a lot of the extra time you have is ´boring´ everyday routine, after school clubs, homework, trips to the shops etc and not fun filled frolics with your family members so it´s not a fair comparison anyway

I would love to do that boring stuff with my DN as my DBro would love to with his DD. it's not how the time is filled, it's just having the time in the first place.

That aside YouOldSlag, the bathtime/taking to clubs/chivvying to get ready for school is not considered 'quality time', and there's no reason why the OP should miss out on her quality time with her children.

OP, I sense that much of what peeves you about this situation is your ex's attempt to bulldoze you into new arrangements. There's been no 'discussion' involved. You've been told what's happening and that's that, regardless of whether it infringes on your plans or your weekends with the children. I suspect that there's not a lot you can do about someone like that and so you don't have much option but to be a bit of a bulldozer back - "2 nights with ex pils, no (they are at granny's); weekend for the ballet - fine (if it's his weekend); weekend for the concert - no, not convenient (if it's your weekend)". No reasons, no discussions, just a simple yes or no. Ignore all the frothing that might follow. If he didn't froth at that it sounds like he'd find something else to froth about.

You've been told what's happening and that's that- No she hasn't, she can still say no. The communication was clumsy and badly done, but the OP is still left with a choice.

I think she has handled this well. She has said no to changing an existing arrangement, and has offered other time they can see the DCs.

The GPs are not committing a crime by asking see a child they love! The ExH is another matter, being a bit of a twat by the sound of it, but he is not wrong for wanting to see his DCs either!

The GPs are asking for two special events, a concert and a ballet. These are not the kind of events that will happen every Saturday night for the rest of the year. They are not stealing all of the OP's quality time with her DCs, she is still both in control and being co-operative IMO.

Well, I would tell him to make arrangements with his parents for the weekends that he has the children - there would be no negotiation and attempts to accommodate him from me, I'm afraid. He could see his dc far more frequently than he currently chooses to, has been an arse over contact and child support. I say fuck him. The kids have done perfectly well for the last 9 years without their paternal grandparents involvement - they are unlikely to be suffering now if they miss one trip to the theatre.

If the GPs are serious about wanting a relationship, then they'll make an effort during their son's access weekends.

I think that given he has chosen to leave you to bring up the kids essentially by yourself and has opted out of being a proper dad, who sees his kids as much as he could, then the dc are unlikely to benefit from his involvement now. That ship has sailed, so do what you want and let him fit in with you, not the other way around.

I fully second communicating by e mail.
Re the hospital stay, arrangements have already been made, thank you.
Re the 2 seperate trips, which in reality will not be in any way helpful to the op, only agree to if BOTH children ok with it AND the gp do all running around. Otherwise no thanks.

The ex chose his path in life which was to shag another woman rather than be with his own childre.
I do not do "Disney Dads", or mothers for that matter. What actually counts is not one trip to the ballet in 10 years, no, it is all the mundane boring stuff. The discipline, tears, tantrums.

Stay strong and don't be dragged into a slanging match. What you say goes, you have been left to bring up your children alone.

If the gp parents want to see the children I would encourage this but only when it suits you op. You have said yourself they were never there when it mattered neither was their dad.

YANBU to feel angry about this either.

Youoldslag- I never see my bils children either, not through want of trying. Howevr I fully understand that that is entirely down to my dickhead bil and the way he treated his ex wife.
It is a fact that there is a fallout after divorce unless both parties are prepared to put their children first.

So much great advice here & it seems to have worked well.

I sent ex-H a very factual email yesterday with dates going forward, which he has agreed to for now. I ignored the spitting bile which came back on other issues too. I will not get sucked in.

I spoke to ex-MIL last night, thanked her for the dates and suggestions, said I would have a think about it & discuss it with the DCs & get back to her. I will agree to them, as I don't want the DCs to miss out but I didn't want her to think that it was an automatic yes, as I know that she will see this as the thin end of the wedge. When I was still married to ex-H, she was very pushy & we ended up being bull-dozed into all sorts of visits / plans / arrangements that we didn't really want to do.

Fingers crossed it will all work out for now anyway! Am hoping I've set the right tone with everyone - accommodating but not doormat.

"The GPs are asking for two special events, a concert and a ballet. These are not the kind of events that will happen every Saturday night for the rest of the year."

The concert may be a one-off, but the ballet will be part of a season. It's just bloody rude to book something like that without checking with the parent who'd have them at that time - for all they know, she has her own plans.

Stand your ground, OP. Your ex sounds a bully and will do this again and again if you give way. Agree that if your kids like the sound of the special events, and the GP will do the travel, you may want to let it go this time, but I would stress that any further activities of this nature need to be either in "his" time, or in school holidays after negotiation/discussion with you to avoid clashes. Like normal people would.

X-posted, and well done you.

Am hoping I've set the right tone with everyone - accommodating but not doormat.

Sounds about right to me and well done for picking up the phone to the GPs. Good luck OP, sounds like you've done a great job and taken lots of things on board.