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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be thoroughly irritated with playing the 'poor relation' game

36 replies

ella47 · 20/07/2012 15:52

Don't know where to start but the constant 'pity me' game my brother is set on playing is driving me round the bend! He and his wife have no kids, both work (not full time and not at a staggering wage but more than enough not to qualify as on the breadline), both smoke and drink very regularly (yes, my judgey pants are freshly laundered) but never have any money and constantly whine about it.

SIL's parents pay about 80% of the rent on their flat out of sympathy for them 'having no money' and the landlord is crooked as anything and hasn't even declared there's people living there so they pay no council tax, so they should have more than enough to live on.

DP and I on the other hand have a 3yo, are finding it hard to find ft work and get a decent income, find it hard to make ends meet but still make sure we do it comfortably. Because of this we don't have a car, don't go on 'proper' holidays, don't buy a lot of luxuries/expensive clothes/booze/meals out and so can save a little (miniscule amount to be fair) to cover emergencies and have enough to cover all we need, and now and then a little of what we fancy.

DB & SIL on the other hand spend money the instant it hits their bank account. SIL got a reasonable payout from a legal matter (she's fine in case I sound heartless) which quickly went on a few of their debts but mostly on a holiday to America, a lot of clothes and nights out. They've run up large debts on credit cards for lots of nights out and jet off to Europe whenever they've got any cash. Yet DB is virtually always moaning about how poor they are, and how stressed and depressed he is because they're so poor. He seems to completely fail to see WHY that is and thinks I'm managing because I get tonnes of benefits! Any time they need to spend anything to do with family rather than themselves (birthdays, Xmas, just coming to see us) DB launches into a massive spiel about how he can't afford it, is so upset, wishes he could treat us etc etc.

For my dad's 60th he couldn't even afford to put in £20 for a meal that had been planned ages and was originally HIS idea and rather than just bow out or borrow the money (I offered) quietly he went on for a couple of days to my parents about how poor he was until they cancelled the whole thing Sad. More recently they spent out on a 3rd car (because they need one each and one is a massive 4x4 which guzzles petrol apparently) and then just a week later DB spent 90 mins on the phone to me whinging about one of his creditors taking him to court and how stressed he was about it.

I know these are only a couple of things but there's something like this regularly and it just grates on me so much. It's DB really, not SIL - ok she's creating the situation too but she keeps quiet about it, but DB has this permanent tragedy 'play' going on where he's such a victim because he's so poor and everyone has to be involved and pity him. If you even hint that he could take control and do something about it you're being unsympathetic and he'll go to the next family member who'll play along and agree you're being cruel.

I'm prepared to be told I'm being judgey and am jealous but can he not just grow up a bit? Oh and he's 7 years older than me so not a young student or anything. Without causing WW3 how do I make the point I'm fed-up with this game?

OP posts:
CaliforniaLeaving · 20/07/2012 16:07

I'd have to stop listening to him and changed the subject or I'd be wearing the judgey pants too. Blush

WingDefence · 20/07/2012 16:13

YANBU at all. My DBro and SIL have racked up lots of debts and were bailed out by close relatives of ours before they went bankrupt. Always going on and on about money i.e. how little of it they have, yet SIL spends tons on credit cards, shops at Waitrose and they could even downsize houses if they wanted to as well as little things like always letting their insurances roll over instead of getting quotes from other companies and shopping around. My DBro has no control over her so I've stopped feeling sorry for him as he enables her.

On the other hand, DH and I have always been good with money and when he lost his job last year we moved to a different area so as to reduce our mortgage and keep 'comfortable'.

I have no sympathy but I keep quiet to keep the peace. One day though I shall give them a piece of my mind...

TandB · 20/07/2012 16:18

YANBU

I have some relatives who spend every penny of the substantial amount they earn on luxuries and then complain about being skint. It has come to a head recently after a lengthy period of apparently being unable to reimburse other family members for some money spent on their children (the kind of expenditure you would expect to be repaid) and the announcement that he is planning on buying an expensive new luxury-type car.

Dprince · 20/07/2012 16:20

My dbro always says he and his wife are skint. But they aren't, as they don't have kids they eat out 3/4 time a week and go away 3 weekends out of 4. They used to moan all the time and my mum and dad would always pay for things for them out of pity, even though they knew were their money was going.
The moaning stopped when after listening to them moan, again, for forty minutes when we were having dinner. I pointed out they were not skint, they had spent it on having a good time and if they were skint they wouldn't be going away for a long weekend the next day. After an uncomfortable silence, dbro laughed and said 'your right.'
Never heard anything again. However my sil is my best friend and I introduced them, so I got away with it. We have been friends 10 years. She saw what I was saying. I would recommend making sure you can get away with being that blunt before you do

indiansummeranyone · 20/07/2012 17:06

MIL is always telling us how hard-up SIL and DBil are. Its very worrying apparently as SIL is so miserable as its not the life she thought she'd be living, constantly worrying about money.

MIL's last visit she confided that if things don't improve, as poor DBil is not working at the moment, they will, gasp...

"have to...have to....sell one of the Horses!".

DP smirked. MIL was not amused and assured us that "apart from the boarding school fees and the horses they are VERY frugal". She's deadly serious.
Fortunately, its too hilarious to get cross about.

ella47 · 20/07/2012 18:18

Thanks for the replies, Shock that there seem to be quite a few 'whingers' out there. LOL at having to sell one of the horses, how awful Grin. Unfortunately Dprince I can't get away with being blunt, have to hold my tongue every time DB whines to me because every time I've snapped in the past and told him exactly how little sympathy I got for his 'troubles' he goes into a 'bad spell of depression' and my parents get the brunt of the moaning, which isn't good as my dad's not well and worries. Not trying to make light of mental health problems though, a good friend of mine has 'real' depression but for reasons too long to list here I'm convinced DB's is just a convenient excuse to avoid responsibility for anything.

OP posts:
Dprince · 20/07/2012 18:36

Perhaps you could try this,
Dbro 'i wish had enough money to xyz'
You 'quit smoking then'
and keep repeating it until he clocks on.
Or you speak to your parents, come up with a plan together?

ella47 · 20/07/2012 18:43

Don't want to sound defeatist but have tried Sad. Tried talking to parents but they come out with a load of defeatist 'compliments like "but he's not as sensible as you", "but he finds it much harder than you", "but we've talked to him already, what more can we do?", "but he's just like that" and talking to him;

DB: "I'm so skint this week"
Me: "What about giving up smoking/drinking?"
DB: "Yeah, I wish - easy for you to say because you don't drink much/smoke - it's really hard to break the habit, you can't do it overnight you know, I don't actually spend that much on it etc etc etc"
Me: gives up

DB: "I can't do insert important family function here, I've got no money at all"
Me: "Well maybe if you didn't go to Spain/France/London on a drinking binge you could save some for times like this."
DB: "Ok, I'll just stay in all the time and get even more depressed and hang myself shall I?"
Me: "You know that's not what I'm saying"
DB: "I need something to look forward to"
Me: gives up

Denial is not just a river in Egypt!

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 20/07/2012 18:55

Maybe try pointing out to your parents that their behaviour is facilitating his behaviour, and if they didn't then maybe the useless fucker would have got his finger out of his arse by now?

Probably still too blunt, huh? Wink

whackamole · 20/07/2012 19:02

Your conversations should end like this:

Me: big sigh honestly bruv, it's like talking to a teenager with you. Is there anything about your life right now that doesn't have a hand in the amateur dramatics.

*You don't have to say bruv Wink

senua · 20/07/2012 19:06

You have my sympathies. I have a colleague like this. Her DP lost his job and they were so skint that they had to move back in with parents. She spends hours moaning about having no money. Her DP finally got a job, so did they build up a rainy-day fund? Of course they ddn't - they immediately booked an expensive holiday to boast about.
I let it wash over me.

DublinMammy · 20/07/2012 19:19

Sounds like conversations with/ about my younger sister, who has a decently-paid job, lives alone with her cat and smokes like a train, drinks like a fish, goes to endless festivals, takes drugs, buys new clothes all the time and still whinges about how skint she is. When she does it to me is I just say "Oh well, you obviously had enough for the festival/ fags/ booze/new dress etc so you have made your choice and must be content with that". Change subject. Repeat. Really bloody irritating though.

I like whackamole's approach though. I may move onto that....

Dprince · 20/07/2012 19:32

He is emotionally black mailing you with 'i'll just hand myself'. He is controlling your family. He is an adult the 'he isn't as sensible as you' is a cop out and your parents are enabling his behaviour.
No you can't quit smoking overnight. What he can do speak to the doctor, he can put a plan in place to cut down and quit. Hr can accept that while he smokes he will be skint and shut up moaning.
In you situation I would tell my parents and I am not putting up with his moaning anymore while he sits and refuses to help himself. I would also tell them that if we make plans I would be very hurt if they cancelled because he failed to budget. And then if it happened again. I would make plans with them and dbro.
I have done this. Dbro and sip were coming on holiday with us and kept saying (after it was booked) they were struggling to save (whilst going away most weekends etc) I told mum and dad that if dbro dropped put and then they did I would be very upset. As my dd would feel let dpen as she was excited mum and dad were coming. I explained why. Mum and dad agreed that he needed to grow up. They hinted they may cancel and dad said 'thats fine, you need to do what's best but we are still going.'
Also dad didn't offer any money to help, as he usually would've and surprise surprise they had enough money. They just didn't go away as much
That was when dad realised he had been enabling them. Mum took a little longer. Up untill my dinner table comment.
I love my sil and dbro and they are expecting their first child. I have given them loads. A cot, moses basket, clothes etc. I don't want to come across as heartless. But their moaning and the affect they had on the family pissed me off.

Gingerodgers · 20/07/2012 19:34

Say you fancya weekend in Dubai, but your a bit short and wanted to ask him for a loan. Then go on about how crap it is when you can't get what you want! Denial is a game 2can play! Pointing out the obvious isn't working, time for a new way.....

Dprince · 20/07/2012 19:40

I meant 'i'll just hang myself' not hand myself. That's something different that he shouldn't probably mention to his sister. :)

showtunesgirl · 20/07/2012 19:51

Unfortunately there are always people like this who for some reason think that life "owes" them something. It's bloody infuriating!

holyfishnets · 20/07/2012 19:57

for Xmas buy him the alvin hall book about money and budgeting.

change the subject when he waffles on or say ''can I help you budget, I've had tons of practice on my small income . What night shall we get together and laay out all the figures?'

IvanaHumpalot · 20/07/2012 20:06

Could you bring up in conversation to your parents/SIL parents about pensions, planning for retirement/care homes etc... Something like "oh DP and I are starting pension/retirement planning - scary how much you need for x standard of living/care now that we're all living longer blah blah."

How long can they afford to bankroll your DB & SIL without it having a negative effect on their standard of living/long term care plans? Would this make them think about their own circumstances?

Also, I know it is entirely their choice how/who they spend their money on - but would they (your parents) be able to offer you the same level of help if you were to need it? I hate to sound like a 12 year old but where's the fairness in how they treat their children. This is how resentment builds up.

Trioofprinces · 20/07/2012 20:53

ella47 - yes you are being judgy, but hey I would be judgy in your situation too. I also have a 'poor' relative...

redexpat · 20/07/2012 21:38

Suggest that since he has such trouble controlling his spending that he talk to a debt counsellor. Add that until he does, you don't want to hear him talk about it.

Actually where I am there's a tv program where the presenters come in, look at the outgoings and sort out a new budget for them. Is there one of those in the UK?

It all sounds very annoying and I felt my judgy pants rising up as I was reading your OP.

holidaysarenice · 20/07/2012 22:04

Brother - I can't afford to do x family party I'm too poor.

You - that's fine I understand ur hard up since ur hol. We've had to save hard to be able to go to X party. Don't worry tho I'll save you some cake!! Now who's for a cuppa?

OAM2009 · 20/07/2012 23:56

Ah, OP, Wine, tis a sad tale, sadly heard up and down the land.

My sister used to annoy me (but only a tiny bit) with her "It's alright for you, you've both got good jobs and no kids, we've got crap jobs and two kids so we're skint". It was true so we would pay and help out as much as we could. Now I'm a SAHM and we have two kids.

Two suggestions -

1, the budgeting thing. next time he starts, question him on the basis of sorting it out for him. ie "well, how much do you have coming in? and how much do you spend on rent/food/fags/phones/etc?". Offer to set up bank accounts for him that direct debit savings etc. Try and rope Mum and Dad in to it, as being a positive solution to his problems.

2, don't give up.

DB: "I'm so skint this week"
Me: "What about giving up smoking/drinking?"
DB: "Yeah, I wish - easy for you to say because you don't drink much/smoke - it's really hard to break the habit, you can't do it overnight you know, I don't actually spend that much on it etc etc etc"
Me: (doesn't give up) Well, you don't have to do it overnight. We'll all help you and get you a free pack from the drs. Let's work out how much you do spend on it and it'll motivate you to stop.
DB: comes out with more whining
Me: confidently shoots down his whining and shows it up for what it is

DB: "I can't do insert important family function here, I've got no money at all"
Me: "Well maybe if you didn't go to Spain/France/London on a drinking binge you could save some for times like this."
DB: "Ok, I'll just stay in all the time and get even more depressed and hang myself shall I?"
Me: "You know that's not what I'm saying"
DB: "I need something to look forward to"
Me: Well, you can look forward to having more money in 1 months time.
DB: comes out with more whining
Me: confidently shoots down his whining and shows it up for what it is

Or you could just Angry FFS YOU HAVE NO MONEY BECAUSE YOU PISS IT ALL AWAY AND EXPECT US TO PICK UP THE PIECES Angry like I would Smile

ohgorgeousthings · 21/07/2012 01:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thumbwitch · 21/07/2012 02:09

YANBU. I have no issue with people not being able to afford stuff because they actually don't have enough money coming in; but I also have family members who piss away money on trivia, and then have troubles paying the bills and need bailing out on a semi-regular basis. Not to the extent of your B and SIL, OP - but similar sort of "cash blindness" in terms of not understanding the simple point: "If you haven't got it, DON'T SPEND IT".

I don't have that much money either - but I never spend it out on crap when I haven't got it.

Littleprincessrocks · 21/07/2012 02:18

YANBU
My sister is so skint that she paid in cash for an extension to her house Hmm
She is so skint they can only go on 5 holidays this year Hmm

But me being who I am, the last time her "woe is me, I am so skint" whine began I stopped her in her tracks.
Sis: Oh we are so skint at the moment
Me: Let me stop you there. You my dear have no idea what the word skint means. Skint is when you have to make your own bread (or buy reduced if you get there in time) because you can't afford a loaf. Skint is when all of your bank accounts have minus figures in. Skint is what we are, you are looking skint in the face.
Sis: Oh erm...
Me: Skint is not having £60K in cash to spend on an extension. Skint is not being able to afford a holiday at all, regardless of any bargains the Sun offer. Walk a week in my boots darling, then tell me you are skint!

(This was on my door step, and I know my neighbour was earwiging, and I think he was cheering me on - he had a bemused Grin on his face.)

Strangely my sister has never said the word skint to me since then! Grin But shockingly she is still talking to me!
Go on, tell them straight how you feel, it is liberating! You will feel so much better for it.