to think this is not how we should be treating our nurses and mw's?

[VictoriaWould]

telegraph
They've had a pay freeze for 2 years, are contributing more to their pensions, working harder because of the staff cuts and now they want to sack them if they don't agree to an appalling drop in conditions and pay.

Is this how we really want to treat our hard working frontline HCP's?

I think a lot of NHS workers are going to be looking into career changes or emmigration. There will be no incentive at all to work weekends/ nights and under so much stress with such responsibility.
Australia and New Zealand are crying out for midwives and paying them a decent wage too. I bet they get breaks.
Who wants to be stiched up by a mw who is on her 10th hour without a break?

This makes my blood boil. Like everyone else I Can cite huge wastes of resources but rather than address these they're going for the soft target of the already overworked an underpaid staff.

DH works for a large hotel. Tomorrow night theirs going to be a big 'do' for local NHS management. Drinks on arrival, plated meal (as in not buffet), wine (r&w) on table. I'd be curious to know who's funding it, DH said no drugs reps etc involved.

And I certainly wouldn't consider working in one of the hospitals in this consortium now. So it's going to affect their ability to recruit and retain staff. Which means higher HR costs I'd have thought.

And for the non NHS workers in the area it means that over time their pay will come down. If an nhs receptionist used to earn 15k and then their pay is cut to 13k, it means that non nhs receptionists on 15k aren't going to get pay rises. New receptionist jobs will be advertised at 13k, there will be a slow erosion for all workers.

I agree nurses should be more valued but the comment;

"I'm probably a hard hearted bitch but as a midwife I'd do it.

It would only take a day or two for the board to change their mind. If people/babies died in that time then I'm sorry but that's the board's fault not mine!"

Has sent a chill down my spine. I would work for free if it stopped someone's baby dying. I can't understand as a nurse myself how someone can make that statement it's sick.

Oh Batcave it must be awful. Don't know how I'd manage with a cut like that.
I still can't believe its legal to do it.
Surely if you all stuck together and refused to sign new contracts, they'd have to cave in as they'd have no hospital without the staff to run it?

I totally agree that what I said isn't nice.

If work rang up now and said can you come in. We're manic and concerned that it's unsafe, someone might die, etc. I'd race in like a shot even if they said they couldn't pay me.

However if they sacked me today and told me to come back next week on less money I'd say no even if they were saying but we'll have no staff. I think the difference is at the time you say no you're not coming back there isn't a specific person at risk, it's very much a theoretical situation. And I'd be hoping that the day before all the staff were going to leave that the trust board would crack first. If they didn't I'd no longer be employed there, which would be their responsibility not mine.

needstotidyup I'm sure viva doesn't need me to stick up for her but I can understand exactly what she is trying to say. Nursing and midwifery is already seen as a 'vocation' we're 'angels' and we do it all for 'the patients', actually no, it's a job, the same as any other and the vast majority do the job for the money that we take home at the end of the day so I totally get where Viva is coming from. I love my job but unfortunately the NHS runs on goodwill, largely like you describe, if we all started working to rule then the whole thing would collapse. Managers etc need to understand they can not run a hospital without staff who they pay fairly and offer fair conditions to, because the alternative is what Viva describes. Sadly it's probably the only thing they'd ever take note of.

I wish I had qualifications to get out of my job, but I am stuck in a job which we are always understaffed so I am stuck in a rut, if pay decreases come into effect then I will be fucked as i can't afford not to have a job or afford less money :(

viva there is currently 1 trust in the area that is not joining the consortium (Torbay), like you said, where are we going to recruit decent staff from?

Yes, it is demoralising. victoria they've got us over a barrel. Nurses won't strike (well I wouldn't anyway) we care about our patients too much. That's why I frequently do unpaid overtime, skip my breaks, go home an hour or two late ( oh and if you say anything about this you are accused of not managing your time well enough. NO!! IT'S BECAUSE 2 TRAINED NURSES ARE LOOKING AFTER 20 PATIENTS!! )

And not renewing our contracts is iffy, yes ideally we'd stick together and they'd be left with no staff, unfortunately, as is my case, I rely on my salary to live. It's a big risk to take.

Yanbu, I'm really scared by whats happening to the nhs atm

There is more than one trust that isn't joining. Cornwall Partnership Foundation Trust which hosts Mental health and childrEns services (health visitors, community staff, school nurses, SALT etc) across Cornwall are not joining the Cartel (yet)

I'm also very scared about what is happening. I have worked for the NHS for over 20 years and have never known morale to be so bad. Staff are being stretched to the hilt and they know that the service they give is suffering.
Yet the Corporate side of the Trusts are spending money on events, hotels etc as said above. Takes the mick when the front line staff are being cut, and very experienced clinicians are losing their jobs. Trusts are so big now that there is no where to apply for another job in the area.
Staff don't speak out because they are scared, yet they are told to be positive...sounds like the bankers...and where did that all end up????

What a fucking kick in the teeth.
I don't think morale has ever been so low amongst the frontline staff and now this.
I am run ragged at the end of every shift, lucky if I get a break in twelve hours. Frankly I am at the end of my tether and it is beginning to affect my health. I have been at work for 75 hours in the last 7 days (and nights).
This would be just the push I need to go and get a job in Aldi. Or move to Australia. I think a lot of my colleagues will be doing the same.
The stress and responsibility for even less money just isn't worth it.

Its starting already at my work place. I love how they can gloss things over and make them look like they are doing us a favour. Our shift now finishes earlier in the day at 8pm and in that time we have to take more breaks like we can fit in two 45 minute breaks but the nights start a full one hour earlier at 730pm and finish at 8am with exactly the same breaks as before. Surely it would make sense to give the enforced extra breaks to the poor staff on the night shifts? When all is said and done, it now means we owe the hospital 12 hours a month. Thats one full shift a month. Who is doing who the favour here?

The reason they've changed the late shift so it ends earlier is as they need to comply with European working time directive and have an 11hour break between a late and an early.

However they ignore the advice about length of night shifts as that's only guidance. So even though it says something about night shift staff aren't as safe afetr eight hours they're extending the night shift to 13 hours where I work!

Its the same at our place with two split 45 minute breaks so we arent even allowed to take them together. And, forced to fit in an extra half hour break in the day when we dont even need it because the shift is an hour shorter!

I work in an NHS lab. We've had our pay effectively cut by both the pay freeze and the change in our pensions, we've been told we're about to move to a shift system (until now it's been a voluntary and better paid on-call system, so another decrease in wages and conditions).

We've now been told that, like a lot of other staff groups in a lot of other hospitals all over the country, we've got to re-apply for our jobs. Several of us will be made redundant, and several more will be demoted (we've been told).

Who needs this? I really regret the 6 years I spent studying for my registration (3 year degree, 1 year MSc, 2 years training post MSc) but at least I know there will be other jobs I can go to. Unfortunately all the skills and training I've built up will then be lost to the NHS.

I agree, morale in our department (which includes scientists, nurses, doctors etc.) is at an all time low, not sure if there's an answer but I do feel that there is a fair degree of shortsightedness by the government.

Viva, the working time directive does not apply to shift workers (makes you wonder why bother), but it gives the management another lie reason for changing shifts as they please.

Yes, I was suspicious our HR woman was lying to us in a workshop. I challenged her over this specific point and she said that that's not true. I think it was more emergency/nhs/essential care staff I thought didn't have to comply but she says we do.

However I can't see the benefit to them aswe're going to have a 3 hour period in the day where both the early and late shift are going to be on - they'll be paying double wages at this point as the whole hospital will be double staffed for 3 hours a day!

TheNightWatch I have a feeling you work in the same hospital as me

We are pulled out every single shift.

I regularly get no break, continuously off late. It is the same in most areas.

If my pay is cut I will no longer work for the nhs. The pay isn't good anyway and the responsibility and work load is horrendous.

i.m a mental health nurse i work on a dementia ward its closing down in october and merging with a female dementiaward [i work on male] the ward i worked on was only completely redesigned and refurbished five years ago and now there doing it all again waste of money? several of uswill be redeployed my third time in seven yesrs morale at an all time low but i have to stick it out because as a trained nurse i do earn a reasonable wage far more than i could expect to earn in the private sector

another point recently they changed the shift pattern so everybody has to work two long days[ twelve and a quatre hours] and two short days eight hours nobody had much say in this and night shift now start at 7 30 pm and finish at seven fourty five am an extra hour and a quatre the twolong days and two short days actually suit me due to child care but they dont suit the vast majority!

moral where I work is appaling. We are undervalued, over stretched and everyone is incredibly stressed. I personally carry a caseload which is 3 times the recommended amount for a midwife working my hours. I have spent 10 years unable to understand why anyone would not want to be a midwife. Now I get it.

agency midwifery is calling, I live close enough to London to work there, and I would earn, what, about £60 an hour? tempting.