to think that this not guilty verdict is a travesty

[DreamingofSummer]

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/19/simon-harwood-not-guilty-ian-tomlinson

Caught on camera but still not guilty

I wasn't aware that they had changed the cause of death from heart failure, and I was prepared to say YABU - but reading the article, yasvnbu (you are so very not being unreasonable).

The system fails again.

What's a man with his history of assault doing in the police anyway?

From the Guardian

Neither jury heard details of Harwood's prior disciplinary record, which can only be reported now. This includes how he quit the Met on health grounds in 2001 shortly before a planned disciplinary hearing into claims he illegally tried to arrest a driver after a road rage incident while off duty, altering his notes to retrospectively justify the actions. Harwood was nonetheless able to join another force, Surrey, before returning to serve with the Met in 2005.

He allegedly punched, throttled, kneed or threatened other suspects while in uniform in other alleged incidents.

Without wanting to pass comment on whether the judgement was correct or not, the article doesn't say he had a history of assault, just that: "He allegedly punched, throttled, kneed or threatened other suspects while in uniform in other alleged incidents."

Try finding a police officer who hasn't had an allegation of assault made against them; some may be justified but plenty of drunken/drugged up louts will kick off when an officer tries to arrest them and then claim that they were the one who was assaulted.

Hard to understand how he got away with this one. Maybe if it wasn't for last year's riots the verdict might have gone the other way.

peas

.. and it was a shame that Ian Tomlinson threw himself at his baton - the things that the police have to put up with.

This is why we need a change in the law so that relevant previous convictions/history can be revealed to the jury.

Unless you have listened to days and days of evidence, reading a complex file, listening to legal arguments and summing up from a judge I think you are not really in a position to comment on whether the verdict was a travesty.

Previous convictions that are relevant to the current case are disclosed. It's called bad character evidence and it's use is tightly controlled.

Nigel

I agree with you. There was no evidence of Simon Harwood assaulting Ian Tomlinson except for the film of him doing so.

Must have been very hard for the jury

The video shows PC Harwood using his baton on Tomlinson. That is very far removed from automatically being guilty of the legal definition of manslaughter.

Peas, the Telegraph is now reporting 10 separate complaints against Harwood - some lodged against him by his own colleagues. Here

Nigel

Of course. And I bet if Ian Tomlinson had been shown doing the same to Simon Harwood he'd have been found not guilty as well.

The Tomlinson family have said that they will pursue a civil case against Harwood. I for one would be happy to contribute to a legal fund.

YANBU. It beggars belief.

Statement just issued by the IPCC

Deborah Glass, Deputy Chair of the IPCC said:

?While the jury has today acquitted PC Simon Harwood of manslaughter, it is clear that significant questions remain in connection with his actions on the day Ian Tomlinson died. Whether or not those actions were reasonable will be tested further at a misconduct hearing in September, which I have directed will be held in public.

?There are also questions in this case that the Metropolitan Police Service must answer. PC Harwood was able to retire from the Metropolitan Police while facing disciplinary proceedings for previous alleged misconduct towards a member of the public. That he was then re-employed by the force, first in a civilian role and later as a constable, is simply staggering and raises considerable concerns about their vetting procedures.

?Our investigation report, which we have published today and provided to the Metropolitan Police in August 2010, recommended that they ensure this cannot happen again.?

What dreaming said. Thus verdict is outrageous.

YANBU, sadly the long lists of accusations against him, including using police databases to check up on a man involved in an accident with his wife (!) were not disclosed at trial.

Horrible man and a real disgrace to the police force. I would like to think these kinds of policemen are few and far between but cases like this really don't give me hope :(

Hope the IPCC do something about him, what a shame he wasn't removed from the force sooner.

I am outraged. I'd also contribute to a legal fund for a civil action.

YANBU and the police wonder why kids start rioting because of them? (Not condoning rioting btw)

YANBU. Bloody hell.

Beware rushing to swift judgment over the similar fact evedence witheld from the jury. A couple of articles to explain the important civil liberties they protect:

www.totalworlds.com/law/sfe2.html

lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/lc273_Evidence_of_Bad_Character_in_Criminal_Proceedings_Report.pdf

The second is a Law Comission report.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/jul/19/simon-harwood-ian-tomlinson-video

It is very hard to judge. Technically this may well be the correct application of the law, from what I have read the jury deliberated for a long time before reaching his verdict.

Morally it feels pretty grim but we can't change the operation of the law to give what people believe is the right result in a particular case.

I feel very sorry for Ian Tomlinson's family. Harwood's record doesn't look good.

YANBU it is a total outrage and makes a mockery of the whole system.

It solidifies my belief in the fact that the police cannot be trusted. You just know if it was the other way round the verdict would be entirely different and there would be political uproar.

I know a policeman who works at most of these type of events, (I don't know if it is still called riot squad?) and he is what I would describe as a total thug, as are the majority of his friends who do the same job. I met them at his party, before he divorced his wife (my close friend), his wife has told me about how its not just him who is violent and has let it all go to his head. Anecdotal evidence I know, but the whole thing just makes me uncomfortable. These are people not machines, there is always unpredictability with human behaviour and I cannot bear those riot police.

Harwood was also caught on attacking a BBC cameraman just before the Tomlinson incident. There's no way you could mistake a cameraman with bulky equipment for a rioter and he attacked him from behind.

Why was he never charged with this assault, and why were so many of the previous complaints of violence - even those made by fellow officers - not investigated?