to be fuming at an ex member of staff

[turbo1]

I run a newly started up commercial cleaning company. I lost one of my contracts due to my poor handling of this cleaner who was an absolute nightmare. She was rude, knocked off early and made up lies about the other cleaner. I finished the contract there a couple of weeks back and she now works at the premises under the new cleaning company who have won the deal. It is standard procedure under the Transfer of Undertakings Paid Employment 2006 regulations that when management changes her job is protected.
When my staff get paid, which is fortnightly, I email them their pay slips. the only person who I could not do this to was Rosa as she cannot use a computer. Instead I have always gone out of my way, driven down to the premises and handed them over to her. I texted her yesterday to say I would bob in next week with her pay slips as I had accidentally left some cleaning equipment on site. She called up and started screaming at me "you are no longer the fucking manager so you not coming to the place, you will fucking post this to my home address". I told her company policy is that we only post pay slips on receipt of a stamped addressed envelope. She then put her husband on the phone who started to threaten me. At this point I told them I was cutting the call and any further abusive or threatening calls would be dealt with by the police.
I am really pissed off now. I started this business a few months back and as of yet cannot afford to pay myself minimum wage. My husband and I are living of fresh air and are spending today ebaying anything in our house that has any value-which is not much. I lost money-admittedly to my inexperience in managing someone so disruptive-and she keeps her paid job. I wish I had fired her when I was her boss, but I did not have reasonable grounds to take her down the disciplinary route-all I gave her was one official warning. I wanted to sack her but she does have rights and I did not want to be done for unfair dismissal.
I did not sleep last night and am bloody livid. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yes, Emma. I used to own a care agency.

Never. Ever. EVER. Again. You wouldn't believe the crap we got chucked at us and the messes we had to sort out. (well, maybe you would )

Now me and my husband have our businesses and we are agreed that we will never directly employ anyone. So it's job by job on people per hour, having other self employed people quote, for my husband it's subcontracting. Office space that comes with receptionist employed by the building, etc

You can put negative comments on references but it's problematic - they must be factual and you must have evidence to back them up and even if you do all this, the person may try to take you to a tribunal anyway (even if they'd lose, it's still nasty hassle for you). Far safer just to confirm dates and not say anything else, as maddening says.

The effect of that can be very damaging to innocent people though - dh used to work for a firm that he had no idea had a policy of just confirming dates and job titles. He lost a job offer over it, because the next employer obviously assumed there was something wrong - even though dh got his boss to write confirming it was company policy not to give descriptive references.

Do you have to give a reference

I would post the pay slip (2nd class) and do a cheeky fart in the envelope for good luck

@fuzzy

Just to pick up on the point about the evil bastard who is not paying up-I have had one of these also and I have not yet been trading for 4 months. The fuckwit did not give me 1 month's notice of cancellation of contract-he chucked me out on the street and even did not allow me to take my equipment for 2 days.

I am now in the process of taking him to small claims even though this is a ballache in filing a claim, tons of paperwork and witness statements.

This is how I describe him..............

www.johncooperclarke.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:twat&catid=36:poems&Itemid=56

One of my FAVORITE poems!

No. Not generally. here Although it does talk about possible discrimination.

I think if you wanted to give a shocking reference, the best thing to write would be "I am not able (I wonder if you could put willing or prepared ) to give a reference for X"

Probably the best thing is X worked from this date to that date. Job title was such and such.

Says it all, really.

sorry edam. Not always. company policy excluded.

I do not need to give her a reference as her employment is protected by TUPE regulations (2006). Also it is standard pracice in the cleaning industry NOT to bother with references-although I always double refence check my staff.

I had no alternative but to employ her when I took on the contract due to TUPE- there is no way in hell I would have employed her if I would have had the choice/

Just cannot believe I have been threatened by the husband. If they did try anything I know Muay Thai and Korean Kempo so am capable of self defense. Part of me wishes they would land a punch on me as I could then legally knock seven shades of shit out of him.

Emma, I think you are being a bit disingenuous there. Isn't the true reason it's so hard to recruit in social care that it is so shockingly badly paid for what the employee is expected to do?

This cleaner you employed sounds an absolute nightmare. And I would imagine her new boss will soon find that out. I'd just send the payslip to her house and try and forget she ever existed. Starting a new business these days must be really hard and well done you for doing it. Hope it flourishes!

If you get this get up to the point of not giving a woman her payslip then you are a terrible boss IMO

Just think 'I have a business, I'm moving on thankfully without this woman, I'll give her her payslip and what she is due to get her out of my face.'

To continue to exacerbate an already horrible situation will win you no friends (if she is long in the cleaning world presumably she will tell everyone she knows including your competitors and t may become a 'oh I've heard bad things about them' situation.

You are not reacting like a business woman should

kayano

Who the hell are you to tell me how to do business?

Do you run a firm?

Besides kayano I have ceased trading under my original business name and have set up as a different firm as I decided my brand name was not right. Thus I could not give a shit what she says.

Just remember this man has THREATENED me. I am entirely within my rights to call the police on them.

Also I have said I am posting the bloody pay slip.

If you cannot offer constructive advice I suggest you keep it shut.

I don't understand why you couldn't just sack her? You say you run a new company so you can only have employed this woman for a short period.

You should have got rid.

However much of a nightmare this woman is you are exacerbating the problem by refusing to put a pays lip in the post . It's a little bit childish and unprofessional don't you think?

Wow turbo. Scary overreaction to Kayano.

You asked for opinions on the way you run your business.

Besides, Kayano is right. As the boss you need to learn to rise above this petty shit, you will come across it again. You said yourself you didn't handle it well. So concentrate on doing better next time. And FGS calm down.

You have just made my point about not reacting as a business woman should.

Get your bloody head together, do what you need to:

1. give the woman her payslip
2. contact the police about any threats you feel are serious
3. do not exacerbate the situation further by being deliberately petty and obstructive.

It was a scary overreaction on your part. Chill the fuck out

Emma, I think you are being a bit disingenuous there. Isn't the true reason it's so hard to recruit in social care that it is so shockingly badly paid for what the employee is expected to do?

Well, we pay £8 weekdays and £11 ph at weekends for entry level staff so I don't think it's too bad. Ours is a home care agency, so generally, most of the clients aren't as poorly as they might be in a nursing home. Our pay rates are affected by the rates we get from social services. Some calls we pay the staff more than we actually receive from the council. The staff do have a lot of flexibility too, more than in most jobs, they can pretty much dictate when they work. So no, I don't think it's shockingly badly paid as it has its advantages over other employment.

Woha there, Kayano is giving sound advice, and she is right.

You cannot go change your trading name every time you fuck up something business wise and think reputation wont follow you!

From the way you speak to people who try to advice you, I am thinking, there is more to this, and surely a reason why "Rosa" did not want to see you in her workplace, and also a reason why her husband felt he had to step in and keep you away.... There is a reason why Rosa kept the job and you lost the contract, I am sure....

You dont come across very well at all.

Turbo - hotheaded and rude - not a brilliant combination for managing staff.

Turbo I thought what Kayano said was perfectly reasonable - and correct. You cannot react like a hot head when you are running a business. You have made mistakes here. Learn from them and move on. Threatening to beat 7 shades of shit out of someone is not the way to go

And before you ask me how I "dare" comment, yes, I have run my own business for 13 years which is 12 1/2 longer than you have!

May I just say I have never had so many people spell my name right on one thread

I thank you

Since 1997 here... so a lot longer also...

Bit confused actually. If your business was newly set up and she had less than 12 months service then she had no employment rights and you could have sacked her and she could not have taken you to an employment tribunal unless you had violated one or more of her rights under the Equality Act (2010).

I have to suck up so much stuff I really want to say to people who let me down- but I always make sure that any correspondence I ever send can never be used against me. It's so frustrating sometimes!

And I always remember what my mother says, 'don't fight with pigs, you'll both get dirty but the pigs like it'