to cancel DS1's play date.

[toysoldiers]

DS1 is 6. He is shattered.

He has always been something of an insomniac and the more tired he gets, the harder it is for him to go to sleep. He is on his knees, especially as it's the end of term.

Last night it was gone 10pm before he went to sleep. He woke at 7 this morning and has been vile. Tired, stroppy, destructive, proper teenager behaviour.

He is supposed to be going to a play date after school. I'm not sure he should. It is the wrong mother to have terrible behaviour, but also the wrong mother to cancel on because of terrible behaviour. .

Half of me thinks he shouldn't be allowed to get away with his behaviour, especially as it's because he won't stay in his bed at night.

The other half of me thinks I'm being too harsh on him, he's only 6 and tired after along school year.

It's just that when he behaves like this it makes me so irrationally angry. I just lose my temper with him which is the worst thing to do. It's the only time I feel like I could be violent towards him (obviously never have, never would etc).

I've made DH take him to school.

sparks it is near the end of the school year.

School year starts beginning of September and ends mid/end July. ergo, it is nearly the end of the school year.

Talk to the mum to warn her that ds might not be on good form and give her the option of going ahead or postponing - make sure it doesn't get cancelled.

And if it does go ahead let her know she can be strict if needed, that if he doesn't eat anything then to just say fine and you'll make sure he eats at home rather than kicking off at her house or her feeling obliged to try to make him eat etc.

Also say that you have told ds that he must be well behaved and you will be asking other mummy if he has been. Also that if he gets tired/grumpy/naughty she knows that she will call you and he will be picked up early.

That way the mum won't feel you are dumping tired naughty child on her but will feel able to deal with any outbursts if they happen, plus ds will start to realise about the link between behaviour and nice things happening - or not.

I'd cancel and tell him the reason you are doing so is his vile behaviour.

I think some of you are being very harsh. He is 6 and he is tired because it is the end of term and he is not sleeping well. I think zipzap's suggestion is a good one. Both of mine YR and Y4 have been a bit tired and stroppy over the last few days and their behaviour has been less than ideal at times. I haven't punished them because they are not doing on purpose but I have taken advantage of the lousy weather to give them a pyjama day last weekend.

He's six, and tired, he will not even realise he is behaving badly. I don't think a lot of whinny, stroppy being irritating registers on children's radar.

It drives adults mad, but they are not aware they are doing it.
DD2 used to have a massive whine about life the universe and everything when she walked out of school.

It probably took a year for her to get why it wound me up and another year to learn not to do it (most of the time).

I'm all for zero tolerance of whinny silliness, in the sense of shut up, get on
With what I told you to do and stop moaning. I'll listen when you speak nicely, but complex consequences really are a waste of time.

He'll remember you cancelled his fun for being "naughty", but because he hasn't done one simple naughty thing, he'll not really understand what to do next time.

Toysoldiers, I'm quite worried about you and the fact that you are afraid of your son's reactions when he's thwarted. Where is your DH/DP in all this and why isn't he standing shoulder to shoulder with you on discipline? Little boys like yours can respond better to a joined force. He relies on his parents to keep him safe and protect him from his own temper, he probably frightens himself when he's out of control, and especially if no-one enforces boundaries. Don't give in for an easy life, he knows all he has to do is go off on one or at least threaten to and he gets his own way.

With the not sleeping, have you tried a very firm bedtime routine? Winding down is important to enable relaxation and sleep. No computer games or exciting TV for a good while before bed, and no computer or TV in his bedroom? I've seen DC so hyped up after an exciting game they are almost twitching. Not good and takes ages for them to calm down. A warm drink? Milky drinks promote sleep. Looking at his diet? Cut anything with caffeine and don't give hot choc at night. No fizzy drinks. Could he be reacting to additives in food or even foods themselves? My friends' eldest went completely off the scale if he had chocolate or oranges or fresh orange juice, and monosodium glutamate; hyper, destructive, completely disobedient and rude, poor attainment at school although very able.

Consider whether there are any emotional issues to be dealt with, he won't be able to sleep if he's worried or anxious.

When he's calm and rational, compile a list of consequences for bad behaviour, and which priviledges should be removed. Ask him what he thinks he deserves, you might be surprised if he is quite hard on himself. Equally, suggest what you will permit after he has got into bed, e.g. lying down listening to a story CD.

I seem to have missed the bit about what he has done? especially the bit that is "vile". Strange way to talk about a 6 year old ginghamfish. I've had two 6 year old DSs and I know how they try to push the boundaries, and how emotional they can be.

As teenage like as it looks, he isn't a teenager.

OP - Perhaps he is having trouble getting to sleep, perhaps there are emotional things going on (worry about change at the end of term?) which you have not considered.

I agree with girlywhirly.

As for the playdate, I would not cancel it, and do as zipzap says.

It would be deeply unfair to cancel the playdate as a punishment. Hours after the events that prompted it and without a warning, IMO, however tempting.

You should have let go of your anger by now OP. You gave him a hard time this morning, and if you felt that strongly then you should have punished him then.

.... and worry about what other people think of your son shouldn't be a driving force either.

I do remember how hard 6 years olds are. Both of mine went very funny at that age. One experimented with spitting at me then

Girly, my DH and I are very united on discipline. I find it strange for you to assume from my post that we weren't.

As for his sleep. He doesn't even have a games console, let alone one in his bedroom, or a TV. He doesn't drink fizzy drinks at all, or have sweets after dinner. He just finds it difficult to wind down - has always been like it.

I let him go on his playdate but turned up at home time so that he could hear me tell his friend's mum that she must call me if there was any bad behaviour and I would collect him.

On reflection, his behaviour was bad this morning but I think I compound it with years of frustration at him not getting the sleep he needs. I become overly stressed by it.

Only one more week of school to go

Thank you all for your wise words.

glad you let him go toy. My DS is just like your ref sleeping. He sleeps well but often can be heard singing etc in bed at 9.30pm. He still gets up at 7am so I just conclude that he has the sleep he needs.

Sorry no offence intended toysoldiers, but you only mentioned him once in your posts so I wondered if he worked away a lot of the time so that you were the one mostly in charge of discipline and were at the end of your tether. You write 'I' instead of 'we' or 'DH and I' so I don't know how you manage DS' not sleeping and results of that together.

So you are stressed, and so is DS, and it's a vicious circle because I suspect he is worried about you subconciously.

toy

I know he's younger, but my DS1 (then 10) started getting to sleep later and later, and we were all a bit stressed about it, mainly because he used to get stressed. Also if I'm honest I did not want him awake during our evening.

When I let go of the idea that he should be asleep by a certain time, I could relax and make it about being in his room by a certain time, listening to CDs or reading but there being no pressure to go to actual sleep. This seemed to help. He still doesn't get to sleep until 9.30/10 but he has started waking later.

It may be that your son is getting the sleep he needs. He may be being stroppy because he's just stroppy. Even if he isn't getting enough sleep, if you try to worry less and get less angry about it, it may help.

My DS is 5. He goes to sleep about 9, unusually as early as 8, sometimes as late as 10. He wakes at 7. He seems ok on 10 hours a night. He is in his room from 7ish as we want our evening too but accept he reads and does puzzles. He seems to benefit from this 'quiet' time. 'Forcing' him to lie down and go to sleep has not seemed to work. Our DD 4 needs her 12 hours. I think they just need different amounts of sleep. Have you considered letting him stay up later, with lights out at 8.30 or something?

I have taught DS techniques for winding down as he can be angry sometimes (less as he gets older) and he uses these if he can't go to sleep: taking deep breathes, counting, thinking about your day, telling yourself a story in your head. The last one seems to work best for him.

This is an interesting read www.parentingscience.com/sleep-requirements.html suggests that minimum amount is 10 hours.