in thinking pull-ups are a bit of a con.

[SmellsLikeTeenStrop]

They're more expensive than regular nappies of the same size (at least they are in the supermarket I usually shop at), but they don't actually help with potty training at all.

I've been using pull-ups but I've just started potty training DS2 and we've abandoned them because they're just useless.

they leak at night certainly but actually we are using them a bit with DS while he is potty training. It became evident that although he is almost there at home, he is not yet ready elsewhere, especially at pre-school. We also spend a lot of time in the car everyday and on motorways when you can't pull over. DS does actually seem to know to treat them as pants and only has an actual nappy at night now. They may be prolonging the process slightly but they work for us in our circumstances - like most baby-related things, there is no one thing / way that suits everyone.

I've not used them for potty training. They are excellent for wrigglers who undo or pull the tabs off normal nappies though.

Both my DDs went in them from about 10/11months. And DD1 just went straight to knickers for potty training - messy but worked fairly quickly.

DD1 potty trained at 2.10 (so not early at all)

Worrywart,

My DS was potty trained at 2.5.

He became dry at night at 9.

Hormonal insufficiency, not 'using pull ups' - he anyway had to wear proper nappies because the lack of hormone to downregulate his wee production meant that he wet as heavily at night as he did during the day. Imagine 12 hours' worth of wee in 1 nappy.....

You cannot train a child to be dry at night. Physiological dryness at night is the only kind of dryness there is - there cannot be a 'psychological' reason for weeing when asleep, because the child are unconscious, so it is involuntary and not under the child's control. There are two main problems - hormonal insufficiewncy and full bladder signals not waking up the child.

The ERIC website is good to dispel uninformed myths about enuresis, if you'd like to check out the facts.

Apologies for appalling spelling!

OK, Teacher - I'm more than happy to accept there are exceptions.

I know, from personal experience, what it feels like when people judge me on my son's behaviour when I know full well he cannot manage what is being expected of him.

All that said, MOST children that end up in pull ups long after they need to be is because they create a 'safety' net for the child and the child becomes attached to them (and here I am thinking of well over half a dozen children who have no such medical reason such as your DS, but who are in pull ups at night at aged 6 and over).

Ironically, I do have lots of toileting issues with my DS (he finds it utterly acceptable to pee anywhere at any time, as long as it's not in his pants) so I am NOT making so sort of judgement call... simply that pull ups create more problems than they solve.

I loved them. My two were in nappies until 5 & 6 and pull ups were bloody brilliant. I was really pissed off when they outgrew them and had to go into those ruddy crappy nhs nappies.

The pullups weren't so obvious, which was really good.

My 4 year old loves them at night as he can pop to the loo if needed without me.

I put them on DD2 (2.3) at night as the sides are more comfy. I used them to help potty train DD1 , but will not be using them for DD2 as they are a waste of money IMO.

But, holyfishnets - if he can go to the loo without you, why does he need pull ups???????

Unless you mean he can go in his pants?????

Thank you teacher
I couldn't be bothered
I find them useful for my 7 year old who suffers from nocturnal enuresis
Means he can go to the loo easily before bed and also that he doesn't feel like a baby

People should do some research before spouting shite

Err... Bronze - I would appreciate you actually READING my reply before spouting your own shit. Thankyou.

I did
Your post at 15.50 was crap

Worry,

Could you explain the basis on which you are asserting that pull-ups are the cause of nocturnal enuresis?

Figures we were given when DS went to the enuresis clinic were that at least one other child in his year (so at least 2 in 60) - at the age of 9 - was not yet biologically ready to be dry at night. That figure is 'static' - ie it's not growing as a result of the arrival of pull-ups, it's based on children suffering from hormonal insufficiency, irritable bladder or 'full bladder' signals not waking the child.

I am not quite sure where you think pull-ups figure in these 3 (very common) medical issues?

People whose children become dry at night naturally early (ie the hormone switchs on at the 'correct' age, full bladder signals do wake the child, their child has a normall active bladder) do ofte think that it is something THEY did which 'trained' the child. There is no such thing as night-time training - a child is either biologically ready, or they are not. If they are not ready, you cannot train them. If they are ready, then whether they wear nappies, pull-ups or cloth nappies, they will not wee while asleep and can get up to use the toilet.

Sorry 16.42

Children either have te hormone adh or they don't. It's not a rare exception to not get it. Nappies of any kind don't make a difference, or is ds2s dic talking rubbish.

I'm going to leave teacher to it as am trying to fend ds3 off SI can't post clearly or concisely

Worry, I'm actually with you on this one.

DD(6) and DS4 were both potty trained around 3.5.
DD is now in Dry Nites pyjama pants because she suffers badly from nocturnal enuresis (sp?) and we are waiting for a clinic referral to sort it out.

I did try leaving her pull up free at night, but to be honest, as a lone parent working full time, the nightly bed changing and laundry mountains made me feel both tired and depressed. So pull ups it was, and we are both much happier. But she would be mortified at wearing a 'normal' nappy, as she associates it with babies.

On the other hand, DS is still wearing pull ups and I'm pretty sure he can try without, so am planning on stopping them for him. Otherwise, as you say, I suspect he may just use them because they are there (iyswim)

How do you know that the children you mention do not suffer from enuresis? If they wet their nappies / pull ups / the bed when asleep with any regularity, whatever age they are, they suffer from nocturnal enuresis (though as up to 7/8 years of age is developmentally completely normal for developing night-time dryness, so in fact they are not 'late' at all, no mediucal professional would be interested in them for a couple more years, so they would not be diagnosed)

Whether they wear pull ups of nappies or their mums simply change their beds every night or several times a night, they are just not developmentally ready to be dry at night. It is unconnected to any other type of special need - DS is exceptionally bright, but a bedwetter. A child who has many special needs may be dry at night. It is a developmental switch that 'flips' in different children at different times. There is a genetic link - my younger brother had enuresius too - but not a direct one.

Read up on it. As I said, ERIC is good.

Cloudbase, depending on your area, it would usually be a couple of years before your DD becomes ready to attend an enuresis clinic. Normally visits before the age of 7 or 8 are 'parental reassurance' visits and no action will be taken until your child is ready. 6 is still developmentally normal.

I give up.

At 16:42, I completely accepted that in your situation, night nappies / pull ups would be an exception. I also tried to support how you feel having to continually support your child's position. I have to do that constantly with my DS.
I posted nothing at 15:50, so not sure who I'm being mistaken with on that one.

I don't think that the OP was aiming this at children with SN of whatever kind. I certainly would never expect a blanket 'cover all'. I have, I have mentioned, a child with autism. I can't even get a mainstream school to accept him, so don't pontificate about how I don't understand. I do.

But, NT children... in general, don't need pull ups.

My son has yet another 'session' at his (state) school, just to see whether they will or won't accept him (yes, appreciate that legally they can't say that) so you will forgive me for not getting into some massive argument. I will leave this one here.

Teacher, thanks for that advice, that's really useful to know.

The GP I saw was a Registrar (and really lovely) but I will check if the referral is actually necessary. I certainly don't want to pressurise DD if this is developmentally normal.

From ERIC:
"It has been estimated that in the United Kingdom over half a million children between the ages of 5 and 16 regularly wet the bed. Studies show that 16% of 5 year olds; 14% of 7 year olds; 9% of 9 year olds and 1%-2% of teenagers wet the bed."

So rather than being 'rare', children bedwetting - and therefore likely to be wearing protection such as pull-ups or nappies while they wait for the developmental switch to night-time dryness - is really quite common. About 1 in 6 five year olds, for example, and 1 in 11 nine year olds.

Cloudbase, the 'self help' ideas which would be given to you on a first visit to the enuresis clinic are quite easy to put into place yourself:

• Make certain that your child drinks LOTS during the day - I think they say at least 7 cups of drink between getting up and supper.
• 'Front load' those drinks during the day. Have 2 before leaving for school in the morning, 1 at school break, at least one with lunch, a couple straight after coming home from school. Tail them off towards the evening but don't refuse fluids in the evening.
• Encourage your child to 'double empty' their bladder at bedtime. Go to the toilet, then 10 minutes later go again.
• Avoid fizzy drinks, caffeinated drinks and blackcurrant based drinks, especially later in the day.

There were more, burt the first 3 were the ones which made the most difference to us. I'll have a rummage on ERIC's website to see whether I can find a list all in one place.

Worry, I am genuinely puzzled by
"NT children... in general, don't need pull ups"

I agree with you in the sense that no child NEEDS pull-ups, as nappies (whether cloth or disposable) are viable alternatives to pull-ups in all situations.

However, if you are implying that no NT child would suffer from nocturnal enuresis and would therefore not need anything to protect the mattress from the results - whether this be pull-ups, nappies or bed-mats - then you are, from all the data available, wrong.

Cloudbase,

Another thing - if getting a referral would make you or your dd less anxious about her enuresis, then it is worth following up even if you are given nothing but reassurance and advice.

We all know how nervousness can affect the bladder - so if there is any stress around at all about your DD's bedwetting, then reducing it through talking to 'an expert' is absolutely worth doing and may be helpful just by itself. Certainly DS at 8, told exactly the same things by a nurse in a hospital as he was by me at home - and reassured that there would be another child in his class who was feeling just as he was and also probably thought they were the only one - visibly relaxed and his enuresis did improve as a result.

This leaflet:
www.eric.org.uk/assets/downloads/84/18512%20ERIC%20Bedwet%20Guide%20red.pdf

is a useful summary - apologies if you already have it.