Would I be unreasonable to do either of these things? To tell a Sikh man

[Wheezo]

1. ... that if he wants to avoid being racially attacked he should remove his turban because to wear something so obviously advertising his 'difference' is to invite racial abuse of some kind which he could do more to avoid (same goes for anyone wearing clothes with religious/cultural/non-western/non-white associations that draws attention to their 'difference')

1. Attend a Black Lawyers' Conference (I'm orange white btw) and attempt to join in discussions about my experience of being discriminated against on the basis that my addiction to fake tan is limiting my career prospects

I think someone who did either of these things would be pretty darn unreasonable but I am coming across opinions that would suggest I am the unreasonable one so just testing it out in the blazing furnace of AIBU to see if it's actually just me.

sweaty I don't want to be an observer - I believe that I have common experiences of discrimination with the Black Lawyers' Conference due to my fake tan and I want them to recognise that the discrimination I have suffered is equal to theirs and that's why I should get to attend the conference and talk about my specific issues. It is very important to me that I am not identified as "white" because through the use of fake tan I have become identified to other people as "non-white" and therefore this is the group of people I feel I have most in common with, so even if they don't feel the same way about me, my rights to attend gets to trump their right to discuss their experiences amongst themselves?

Bonkers

just

fucking

bonkers

No it doesn't!!
You will NOT have a common experience. At least because looking unprofessional is completely different from experiencing racism which is much more than just 'being unprofessional'.
Racism attacks the core of the person and judge them to be 'bad' at all levels (character, cleanliness, abilities, intelligence and so forth). Being unprofessional is well... just not taking the job seriously enough. It doesn't say anything about you as a person.

knowitall But I don't like being all white and pasty and pale, it's not how I think I should look at all. I feel like I am not myself without fake tan. To truly be myself I have to use fake tan and that makes me physically feel more aligned to what I want to physically be - even if I am not in reality.

Touche on the bad application btw

Hang on because I'm worried I am missing the point. This is about feminism and rape, surely?

...right.....

Why bonkers Worra - tell me why please!

To truly be myself I have to use fake tan and that makes me physically feel more aligned to what I want to physically be - even if I am not in reality.
Which means that it is something you culd work if you wished. ave some counselling, regain some self esteem and then you wouldn't need the fake tan to feel good about yourself.
The issue is with you.

Racism is different because black people can not change their skin colour, they are been judged and their worth evaluated from that. Which is wrong. And the responsibility lies with the racist person not with the black person.

If posters want to know where these weird hypotheticals came from take a trip to the feminists' thread .

OP is looking for views on analogies that can be carted back over there.

That's my understanding too, Stealth.

Now I understand the Stealth post....

SPB, yeah it's about rape, women only spaces & trans.

The problem is not the Sikh man, it is anyone throwing any kind of racial abuse at him. There's the problem. Deal with those morons.

The orange thing beggars belief.

Sweaty Fair enough, I'll take that as a no, then to attending the BLC and the same for Lady - you both think it wold be unreasonable of me to try and attend and speak about my experiences as if they are the same as the BLC? I have considered melatonin injections so it may be that in the future I will be able to be permanently the colour I want to be - would that make any difference to me being able to attend?

I don't really understand this at all.

I get that you feel that you have been discrimated against due to your fake tan. I don't understand where the sikh and the turban comes into it.

I'm not comfortable with the Black Lawyers Conference thing at all but please explain to me why a group that exists to support black members should admit a white person who has chosen to turn her skin orange? In what way exactly do you identify with people who have struggled against racism and discrimination just by being born?

I can't get my head round this at all. Is the OP unhinged? Unstable? On drugs? Or just plain fucking stupid. Anyone?

Oh have I been sucked into a thread about a thread?

Anyway, no the melatonin injections will not make you black either. Is this about transgender issues btw?

grimble It's actually from real life as I mentioned upthread though something else from FWR triggered my thoughts on this just this morning. Not carting anything anywhere just yet.

yes

Jins If colleagues think I am unprofessional or if I get turned down at an interview because I am orange that is due to the colour of my skin. And if I make an irreversible decision to alter the colour of my skin to a similar colour to someone else born with that colour of skin, why should I be excluded? Ok so I may not have suffered racial discrimination since I was born but I am experiencing it now. Is my experience of discrimination not as valid as the people at the BLC just because I don't have years of history of discrimination behind me?

wheezo to carry on on your analogy with your orange colour.

It would still not be the case because
1- there is no group of people with 'an orange skin colour' so you can not be racist. Racism is about rejecting a group/thinking their are 'lesser' beings as a group. You are not a group nor are you part of a group.
2- Because it is a voluntary modification of your skin colour and people will always know you are actually white, people around will still see you as belonging to the 'white english women' group and not to the 'orange skin women' group that doesn't exist. As the 'orange skin' group doesn't exist, it also means that you, as a person, will feel you still belong to the 'white skin' group.

I have to say OP, I think you questions are very relevant. And this way of presenting things is also excellent to actually have to really think about what is making one racist, what is making one part of a group (black people, trans, women etc...)

Well I don't see what you are suffering as racial discrimination. Yes it is discrimination if you believe or can demonstrate that what your colleagues think or what happens at interview is purely down to the colour you have made your skin. That's not racial though is it?

If it is in relation to transgender issues then at least I can say that my views are consistent.

If being turned down from a job because you look unprofessional is a discrimination, then lots and lots of people (wo any issues with their skin) are also being discriminated. Like the ones who can't dress appropriately.

And again, being discriminated for your skin colour in this case is the same that being discriminated because you are single, have children, have gone Oxford and not Cambridge.
And this is not racism.

Skin pigmentation is not the same a racial identity, even though racial identity is connected to skin colour. You do not have the social and cultural experiences of someone of a visibly different ethnic origin (and of course those experiences vary widely, too). Even if you are tanned now, you presumably grew up white, presumably in a white mainstream, which access to opportunities, experiences and inclusion that white people enjoy in that setting. While you may face discrimination, and you should not be barred from attending a public event, you may find that the BLC has good reason not to see your experiences as comparable to theirs in a meaningful way. Your experience is valid, sure - how could it not be? It's "as valid" as anyone else's experience. But is it relevant to the purpose of that conference? Maybe, somewhat. Maybe not -- the best ways to approach discrimination are probably related to the underlying causes of it. Those causes are different in your case, so your experiences, while valid, might not be as helpful as you'd imagine.

And, er, the irony here: if you are concerned about discrimination, and feel it reasonable to ask a Sikh to remove his turban ... why not just remove your fake tan / stop using it? No more discrimination! I bet there are people out there of all kinds of minorities who'd give that a try some time, if they could :) if only out of curiousity.

Lady I am part of a group - we've even been given a shitty name - Tanorexics. People do think lesser of tanorexics as exemplified by the thread where the woman wanted to tell her colleague she was unprofessional for wearing fake tan. The closest thing to me to identify with is people who have been discriminated against on the basis of their skin colour. I suppose if I wanted to I could form a Tanorexics Lawyers group but there's not that many of us (politically active ones anyway) and it would be a lot easier if the BLC just accepted that our issues are their issues and then we can join in with them. I accept that some of their agenda may not suit our issues specifically but surely we can negotiate the agenda and make it a bit more representative for the Tanorexics?