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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that this was a little harsh of the school?

26 replies

CunningDisguiseNeeded · 11/07/2012 15:54

As always I am prepared to be told IABU.

Years 4 5 & 6 (60 kids in total) are currently preforming in 3 evening plays (put on by the school). During the 15 minutes 'intervals' the kids are to wait in the dinner hall (which is WELL away from where they play is being held - the parents are 'allowed to get up and use the loo/get drinks during this 15 mins).

At last nights show the kids were in the dinner hall chatting excitedly about the show and got told off for being too loud - they ALL had 10 minutes of their play ground time for today reduced. Also they are not allowed to use the toilet or have a drink in these 15 minutes (it is a dancing/singing show so a lot of them are hot and bothered).

Am I being unreasonable to think that it is a little mean that they loose their playground time for 'being loud' (id say excited) for something that is effectively out of school hours and is meant to be something fun....

and AIBU to be pretty pissed off over the drinks and toilets thing ??

OP posts:

ouryve · 11/07/2012 15:57

YANBU.

LemonBreeland · 11/07/2012 15:57

YANBU. Of course they are going to be loud and excitable. And not using the toilet or having a drink is pretty cruel.

Dprince · 11/07/2012 15:59

My first question is who told you this information? I mean about the reason they had break time removed and that they were refused drinks and toilets.

Vixxen · 11/07/2012 16:10

I hope that wasn't the real reason the kids had 10 mins taken off their break. Because that's uncalled for. However if they were misbehaving then it is justified. Did you witness all of this? Or is it second hand info?

Sarcalogos · 11/07/2012 16:13

Yeah, who's your witness?

No drinks and no loos is inhumane and if true needs to be looked at seriously.

But keeping them quiet(ish) and well away from the audience is standard practice and exactly what I would expect. As is a bit of lost break if they were playing up for the poor sods who were supervising them (unpaid, as you point out in the evening not school time).

Original poster

CunningDisguiseNeeded · 11/07/2012 16:19

I am usually all for the school to 'punish' as they see fit - however this seem a little mean (and I did support the decision while talking to my son)

It was my son who told he this - but I also have 2 other kids at my house tonight and asked them ...and they confirmed what my son had said.

OP posts:

Dprince · 11/07/2012 16:25

Well I would speak to the school. I am pretty sure there is more to this. The situation the kids described is from their point of view. I don't think they are lying, but its a case of perspective.
The situation could have been that they were absolutely climbing the walls. And that one of the kids has asked to go to the toilet 30 seconds before they were due to go back and they said 'no'.
although 15 minutes to get 60 kids to the toilet and a drink seems a bit tight. So there could be a very good explanation.
Yabu to be upset when you haven't spoken to the school.

Original poster

CunningDisguiseNeeded · 11/07/2012 16:27

I am not upset.

OP posts:

Ormiriathomimus · 11/07/2012 16:33

Well 15mins isn't really that long to go without a wee or a drink. And I can imagine the chaos if a load of them all disapeared and didn't get back in time.

Re time of breaktime - it depends. On how much emphasis had already been placed on being quiet and calm during this time. It might be that it had been emphasised by the teacher beforehand and the kids didn't do as they were asked.

Annunziata · 11/07/2012 16:37

Being loud or misbehaving? If you could hear them from where you were sitting they must have made a hell of a noise. 15 minutes isn't that long either, but that depends on the length of the show.

jamdonut · 11/07/2012 17:40

Were they just being noisy or being annoying little oinks and not following instructions?

I had this with 2 performances at our primary school a couple of weeks ago.

They had stuff to keep them occupied.
It was a hectic schedule, so not that much time to be bored (i.e costume changes and back on stage pretty quickly).
And yet it was ruined (for staff) by children who couldn't keep the noise down, and just sit still till they were called despite repeated requests.
Obviously we couldn't raise our voices yell because the performance was in progress. But some children insisted on chasing each other round and round the p.e. hall, doing gymnastics and ,basically ,shouting at each other,even though standing next to each other, despite the fact they had been quite categorically told that they needed to be quiet, and that they couldn't go to the toilet, or have drinks whilst the the performance was in progress, as there was no time. And yet many did just that, even though we had "toileted" before the performance started.
In the end two children were so badly behaved, they had to be stopped from going on for the finale, which was embarrassing for us, and puzzling (at the time) for their parents who were sitting there waiting for them to come on.

Dprince · 11/07/2012 17:43

Sorry OP when you said you 'were pretty pissed off' that you were upset.
let me rephrase. Yabu to be pissed off when you haven't spoken to the school. Is that better and acceptable?

jamdonut · 11/07/2012 17:45

They were ,of course, given drinks when the performance had finished.

VonHerrBurton · 11/07/2012 17:54

Definatley agree with what jamdonut said, sorry.

I would double-check with school though, if you're pissed off about it, as some have said, if this was the only reason, it does seem a bit petty. I fear they may have been told more than a couple of times to keep it down though, in which case YWBU. They aren't infant age after all.

Original poster

CunningDisguiseNeeded · 11/07/2012 18:03

Sorry let me clarify...

It is not just 15 minutes that they are not allowed to use the toilet for - it is from the beginning of the show till the end (so 1.5 hours). which includes the 15 minutes interval.....

The 'punishment' was given during this 15 minute interval (so there was no real need to be totally quiet) ...and I just thought this was a little mean ...but i totally get what it is like trying to control a huge group of 8 - 10 yr olds.

Dprince lol - that is much better ;0)

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 11/07/2012 18:06

Just because something is "effectively out of school hours and is meant to be something fun"...does not give kids the right to be disobedient towards members of staff.

I sincerely doubt they were warned just once and then given the punishment.

Either way, a couple of years ago my DS2 (year 6 at the time) took part in a violin concert at a local senior school. They were also 'held' in the dinner hall during the intervals.

During the interval, a fire broke out in a boiler room right next to the dinner hall and all 85 children had to be evacuated...along with around 200 adults.

Thankfully it all went very smoothly but it does go to show the need for children to listen to the staff and to know there will be punishments/consequences if they don't.

VonHerrBurton · 11/07/2012 18:08

...I still don't think 1.5 hrs for Y3 and up, having been given the opportunity to go pre-watershed (haha), is a huge ask from teachers. But the crux is losing playtime because they were noisy, wasn't it? Not 'cos they wanted a pee?

quoteunquote · 11/07/2012 18:53

out of order, not very nice thing to do, and quite sad trained adults came up with this as a way of dealing with it.

Thymeout · 11/07/2012 19:02

Well what would you do, Quote?

As Jam's post shows, you need to take a firm line in this sort of situation.

jamdonut · 11/07/2012 19:04

Our show was in school time, just over an hour long, but fast moving. This was 8 and 9 year olds. There really was no reason why they couldn't just sit quietly, or do wordsearches/colouring/connect 4 etc. And when one child wants to go the loo, they ALL decide they need to go. It just wasn't possible, as the staff were needed to supervise back stage (Teachers) and the TA's for the "holding" area. There was no way we could leave 80 children to escort some to the loos, especially with the tight schedule. Unless there is a specific, known medical problem, it is not unreasonable to expect children to go for an hour without needing to use the loo.

jamdonut · 11/07/2012 19:19

And yes, I would be interested to know what you think should be done instead?

Do we put up with it? Ask parents to come and sort them out? Seems to me half the audience would be called out!

We were all absolutely shattered at the end of the day. Very proud of the children who could be relied on to do the right thing, and the show was excellent ( the bits I managed to get a glimpse of). But 2 children getting a strop on and fighting and then not willing to follow instructions...well that was the last straw, and they had to be removed.

I find it incredible that people can get upset about their children losing some playtime, if they were not "doing the right thing". To me, that seems a fairly lenient consequence, whether it was "in" or "out" of school hours.

Dprince · 11/07/2012 19:21

I am another wondering what quote would do and if she realises that none of this is fact at the moment.

quoteunquote · 11/07/2012 19:24

do eight and nine year olds need escorting to the loo? mine manage quite well.

I don't think punishing everyone with a blanket ban on loos and drinks is a very good way to deal with it,

I would of gone with the occupy them with an activity, and some sort of incentive for perfect behaviour,

the children haven't deliberately set out to destroy the activity, that happened because they were behaving in a predictable way, excited and impatient,

taking away access to using a toilet and to drink, is wrong, pathetic really when basics are used as a stick.

the adults in this didn't think it all through properly, punishing children for behaving like children, just makes children think adults are unfair,

I bet there were children in among the "misbehaving" ones that tried to be good, and have now also got a message, "why bother, no one else does, punished anyway"

Dprince · 11/07/2012 19:35

No that age don't need escorting. However there were 60 of them to go. Once one goes more follow.
Children of that age should be able to occupy themselves for 15 minutes without an activity needing to be organised.
Plus the huge fact that the OP doesn't know what caused the break time to be shortened, and doesn't know for a fact that drinks/ toilets were banned.
It indeed could have been all the children and there could be a misunderstanding or a reason regarding the toilets.
It would be better to speak to the school rather than brand them 'out of order' at this time its not clear if they are.

Thymeout · 11/07/2012 19:37

No loos, no drinks wasn't a punishment. 60 kids all wanting to go to the loo and have a drink in 15 minutes is a logistical nightmare.

Not being allowed to drink or pee over a 1.5 period is hardly cruel and unusual treatment. These aren't reception age kids. And it's good for them to learn how to behave in a calm and sensible way, not excuse bad behaviour because they're only children.

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