To think the Scottish government have got it all wrong about minimum alcohol pricing?

[rhondajean]

Right I'm just back from Italy on holiday.

A large bottle of peroni is 1 euro 50 in a side shop. Carafes of wine are five euros in restaurants, you can buy half decent bottles of wine for four euros. Spirits yes are pricey but wine and beer are so much cheaper than here.

I saw two drunk people all holiday, one was english and one was German. In an all inclusive hotel, I didn't once have to que for a drink at the bar.

So am I wrong in thinking that the idea of making us pay more for alcohol isn't really going to help and instead we need to find a way of effecting cultural change? Because people are just going to flood in cheap black market booze like they already do with fags aren't they.

I read a theory it's a Nordic thing - to do with the weather and genetics - sorry if this has been done to death but seeing the prices really got me thinking we have it all wrong somehow.

People will drink whatever the price I just look for the special offers on wine now or vodka , dd1 brought back some peach schnappes from spain last week 3 euro 50 she paid for it, Scotland can be so grim and cold folk like to treat themselves and make themselves feel better so we drink , When i go to europe I didnt drink half as much as I can hear

i think they were right to ban promotions (2for1 etc)... minimum pricing is proposed at 50p a unit so that's just £4.50 for a bottle of wine which is about five euros fifty...

as far as i can tell the alcohol this will affect is the really really cheap crap that mainly students, children and alcoholics drink.

my worry actually is that homeless alcoholics will find illegal drugs cheaper

YANBU, I agree with you.

the have stopped those offers in supermarkets but i got a bottle of wine for 3.99 wasnt a good brand obviously but was nice , The alcopops and cider is still affordable

actually - i've never seen any students drink the really cheap crap... the only people i've seen drink it are the homeless people that congregate near the shelters in the city centre.... i'm honestly worried we'll head back towards the 80s drug culture we used to have but i wouldn't know the going price of crack or heroin.

YANBU. I think the people it will have the most effect on are the most vulnerable - the children of alcoholics. The children will be even more neglected as more money goes towards alcohol.

Bizarrely one drink which will not be affected by the new pricing is buck fast which is already priced above the minimum.

Maybe, my point I think is that in other countries with much cheaper alcohol there isn't the same social problems from drinking so we are going down the wrong route - rather than it being unfair.

Spirits will be more expensive - no more cheap Christmas bottles. Unless of course you live in the borders and nip over into England, or live near an enterprising person who travels a lot.

Having been threatened to have my head kicked in for refusing to break the law and serve a man alcohol before 12pm in an off-licence on a Sunday

... And having witness a man who had just been STABBED in the pub for stealing pints react to my asking if he wanted an ambulance by laughing and saying he was here for a special brew instead...

YANBU!!!!

£12.50 for a litre of spirits... i wouldn't expect to pay any less.... i honestly do think the drinks affected by this are mainly drunk by people just trying to get drunk, not people wanting to enjoy the drink.

not that i don't think we have a problem with our culture/attitude, we do, and it is shared in finland, sweden, iceland... but in sweden and iceland drink is so much more expensive..

My mum works in a shop where they have stopped selling Buckfast the owners just refuse to stock it, they have lost a lot of customers My mum has been threatened by people as we have the think 25 scheme and if there is no ID she wont serve them, an idiot threatened to punch her effin heid in , at 2 oclock in the afternoon,

Lidl and Aldi sell cheap spirits my 19 yr old and her friends just go there for it as it is cheaper, people will find their way round it

Wow kayano.

I already cant go for my shopping before work and get a bottle of wine with it for tea, due to the 10am license thing.

I'm starting to seriously think this is a country I don't want to live in for much longer (and not just because of the alcohol thing).

True story

Yes maybe and in most of the expensive Nordic countries, there's a popular drink which is a pint of beer with a wrap of heroin chucked in- cos its cheaper than getting drunk...

Mrsjay, lidl and Audi wouldn't be allowed to sell it any cheaper thought.

I think there are too many differences in attitude between Italy and Svotland with regards to alcohol to use Italy as an example. I do support the minimum pricing, but I hope people don't start brewing their own or any nonsense like that.

Svotland? Dear god. Scotland!

I think to assume that a solution to a problem is to imitate a circumstance without the problem is a false premise. It is like thinking that giving up smoking is enough to treat lung cancer. Yes, some countries have not had the problems with drink we have but that is irrelevant, you would need to find a country that had solved the problem for it to be evidence of any sort.

Governments have a limited remit with social behaviour and culture, especially in a 5 year term. What would you propose they do, really? They are well researched WHO recommendations, I don't think an anecdote is enough to disprove them. I would personally focus more on the drinks that combine alcohol with caffeine, but if people could be moved towards beer from spirits, we would be in a slightly better position (simply more difficult to drink lots of units quickly).

That's my point annunziata - it's the attitudes need changing and making it more expensive in say tesco will indeed just make people find more inventive ways round it, such as black market or home brews.

Rendering the whole thing just another pointless exercise that will no doubt cost me personally somehow.

Sigh.

But it takes a while to change attitudes, and in the meantime something needs to be done IMO.

DD can get a bottle of peach stuff for 7 quid 70 cl bottle

I've seen cans of Stella for 50p!

The stupidest thing about it is that the additional revenue - which IMO should be going towards alcohol education/addiction treatment/supporting families of alcoholics - is just extra profit for the retailers.

Runner I think you are referring to NiCE and not WHO unless there is something I haven't read.

There is a massive amount of academic debate over whether it's of any value whatsoever. As with most things, you can find someone to justify anything if you want to.

I would focus on making it more socially unacceptable to be drunk. It's a slower process, therefore less likely to appeal to a government as they can't pin it as a new policy thats done x like a shiny fucking badge on their lapels, but the short termism I'm seeing in so much Scottish policy ATM is making me despair.

Yes Mrsjay that's because the legislation hasn't taken affect yet.

sorry but why are people saying prices they've seen alcohol sold at? - is it because you think it's too cheap and support the new law? or is it because you don't think the new law will be enforced?