to change my mind and tell the school I don't want dd to have cervical cancer jab?

[lowfatiscrap12]

Yes, I know there's another (very long) thread about vaccines.
I was going to post my question there, but thought it would be lost under twenty odd pages of replies.
Last week I gave dd1 (aged 12) a consent form to have all 3 of her vaccinations for cervical cancer.
Now I should point out that I am very pro-vaccination. All three of my dc's have had, after plenty of research and reading by me, all of their childhood vaccinations. I've read and researched and looked at all the pros and cons and am generally pro vax.
But I've been umming and ahhing over this one.
I've checked and it's Gardasil she'd be having.
I've looked at the reasons for and against it.
I decided last week that the benefits outweighed the negatives, but now I'm wavering slightly.
I'm 39. I didn't have cervical cancer vaccinations at school.
I had safe sex and smear tests.
I've read about some of the side effects of Gardasil and I'm now quite tempted to phone the school and ask them to destroy my consent letter. Or send another letter in. Or just keep dd at home the day they do the HPV jabs.
AIBU?
What does everyone on Mumsnet think about the new HPV vaccine?

Just wanted to chuck in my own personal experience. The vaccine wasn't available to me at school (I'm 26), I only ever had sex with my DP and we used condoms for months etc etc.

My very first smear test came back abnormal (CIN 1) and it was the single most terrifying experience of my life so far, especially as I was already pregnant so had to wait almost a year before they could retest me and think about treatment.

Personally, should I have a DD in the future, I would be giving my consent for her to have the vaccine.

Desperately - CIN1 is not cancer and, in most cases, is cleared by the body's immune system. Obviously not always and if not, they can be treated.

Sorry, that could sound harsher than I intended. I just wanted to point out that CIN1 changes don't always require treatment. I've had a few that had disappeared by themselves when I went back for my check up 6 months later.

bumbley isn't the Pill thought to decrease the risk of other cancers though? And the increased risk of cervical cancer could be down to sex being without a condom - not the Pill itself.

It's not Fliss, those things were taken into consideration.

It increases your risk of cervical and breast but decreases the risk of ovarian and uterine. I was just wondering what people thought because some people considered any risk of the vaccine worth a reduction in cervical cancer. I wonder how they feel about the pill increasing it.

There isn't just the pill. If I had a daughter, I would encourage her (but ultimately it would be her decision) to not only use condoms all the time until well into a relationship, but also to use a more longer term contraceptive like the implant which she couldn't forget to take, and also doesn't (as far as I am aware) have links to Cancer.

For all parents who decided for whatever reason not to immunise their daughters:

you must tell them that they are not immunised and remind them of this regularly

They wont remember so you are responsible for reminding them.

Waiting until they are already sexually active to immunise is like waiting until they are already sexually active to start using contraception - it could already be too late.

Firemansam, would your DD not be able to get the vaccination at school next year when it is offered to the next group of girls?

I am another of those too old for the jabs to have been happening when in school and too young for a smear.
I booked a day off when I had a job to try and investigate the syptoms and when I was at the dr's they turned me away and said they vcouldnt do a smear until i was twenty five.
I have been to two other doctors since witht the ame persistant symptoms and they keep turning me away. I dont know what to do, I am twenty three and have been having sex since I was fourteen and I have weird bleeding and pains in between periods but no seems to be able to help me, or try to find out what is causing this. It makes me really angry that the age for smears is twenty-five. By that point I will have been sexually active for eleven years.

pink, that's all wrong - although you are too young for the regular screening programme, you should be able to raise any concerns with your own GP who should listen to you and take any action that is medically justified. It's the difference between a general programme of checks for everyone in X group and an individual seeing their GP with worrying symptoms - I'm too young for a mammogram but if I was worried about a lump, of course the GP should check, rather than turn me away!

What have the doctors said to you about your symptoms - do they think it's normal and not a sign of anything worrying? Maybe you could try an STD clinic - I know it's not an STD but the staff there might be more prepared to investigate if you explain you are worried and can't get any help elsewhere?

pinkstinks-keep on at your doctor until you are listened to!!
Cant believe they would turn away a woman with symptoms, its a disgrace!
Keep phoning and pestering until you get your smear

Sidge 'any GP can order a cervical smear as part of clinical investigstion' this is not correct maybe in some areas of the country in others GP needs to refer onto gynaecology for investigations. Referral should never be delayed by a smear or waiting for the result. Likewise early smears cannot be requested by GP in all areas.

Shullbit if your GP does not know what is going on they should be referring you with your family history in the letter.

Deeppurple am truly shocked

Pinsticks request a referral to gynaecology. We cannot do smears in under 25 they go in the bin. Until recently they could be done at GUM that is blocked now. Gynaecology is the correct route

Pumpkin sweetie accuse phone corrective texting. See posts above hands are tied BUT worrying signs and symptoms should be investigated by gynaecology hence referral needed

Pinsticks hope GP has at least examined you

Hi All, thanks for your kind words, I have always felt like I have been fobbed off, have been to two different GP's and sexuak health clinic and have been refused at all, have not even been examined, even when sat there crying about it.
They have all said there is absoluutely no point giving me one as as I am young there will always be significant changes etc and inaccurate readings may happen. And im sat there saying ''but im presenting symptoms''. And they are saying that it would brobably come back with a false reading which would unnecessarily worry me? This has been going on for over a year now...
I will try and request a referral, thankyou for the advice, and sorry to derail the thread, but I would ask you to vaccinate your daughters so they don't face this wall of beaurocracy.

Pinksticks think they are very Remiss at not examining you. If they refuse referral for your own peace of mind could you go privately for an initial consultation? And then explain lots of consultants if they do nhs work will then transfer you back to nhs if they know the situation. Would probably cost 120-180 pounds but you can ask the clinic first. Not meaning to criticise but wonder if you have gone in asking for a smear not realising they cannot be over ruled as opposed to going in saying these are my symptoms I am very scared. Though your post above makes me think you may have done both. Seems poor care to not put a hand on your tummy, vaginal examination and a speculum.

Good luck. Which area are you in if you do not mind me asking?

Agree with bugs, you may be too young for a smear - because smears are inaccurate at your age - but that does NOT mean it's OK to ignore any symptoms you notice. They should take a history and examine you. I don't know whether there are any NICE guidelines for cervical investigations - worth googling National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence to find out. Or you can download an information leaflet from the Eve appeal - a charity that funds research into gynaecological cancers. (I don't want to worry you, always bear in mind it's VERY unusual in someone of your age, but given you are worried, better to have some information that might either put your mind at rest or help you have a better conversation with your doctors.)

Are you sure that smears are inaccurate at the age of 23?

I was having smears at 21, 22, and 23 and nobody had a problem with doing them nor were they worried the results wild be inaccurate.

Can someone provide a link?

this explains it

Not a great explanation, though:

"One in three women under the age 25 will have an abnormal result compared with one in 14 for older women, meaning there would be many false positives.
The experts warned this would lead to unnecessary treatment which then increases the risk of premature births in the future."

Not true.

If you get a positive, false or otherwise, you don't get treatment. If it is a mere CIN I, you get "Wait and see". Even if it is an alarming CIN III, you get a colposcopy, where dr paints your cervix with vinegar and looks at it. If he sees anything suspect, he clips several tiny bits and sends them to biopsy.

Only after biopsy confirms severe abnormal changes do you get treatment.

AND

That treatment doesn't, under normal circumstances, cause premature births.

The problem is cote, that biopsies have false positives, colcoscopies have false positives, If you start ten times as many women down that path then, crudely speaking, you'll get ten times as many women being treated unneccessarily, and if the risk of actually having cancer is tiny to start with then those unnecessary treatments will affect far more women than will have been legitimately treated.

None of this means that you shouldn't investigate women who have significant symptoms though.

I suppose you are referring to human error here, because it is not really that easy to mistake a normal biopsy specimen for a CIN III with severe abnormalities. Take a look at the pictures here.

In no other suspicion of pre-cancer would you not biopsy because there is a small chance of false positive. It's insanity.

The real reason why smears are delayed is that even if you are infected ei HPV at first sexual intercourse, you will take about 6-9 years to get to CIN III (about 2-3 years between each stage: normal to CIN I, CIN I to CIN II, and CIN II to CIN III). So the state is basically assuming girls start sexual activity at legal age of consent and feel they will catch CIN III's at age 25.

Bad news for those who first have sex at 14 and/or skip between these stages in 2 years. However, they are a small minority, so the state calculates them as collateral damage.

"investigate women who have significant symptoms though"

You must know very little about cancer, indeed

By the time symptoms appear, it is usually too late to save the organ or possibly even your life. Hence the reason why we all go for smears to test for pre-cancerous cells. (apologies to those experiencing symptoms)

I was talking specifically about pink with that last comment actually, but the further detail is really interesting thanks. My interest is epidemiology and Bayes Theoren in general not cc specifically so the specific details you refer to are new to me - although some false positives are unfortunately a fact of life.