To think whatever your opinion on Hitler, he was and always will be an important figure in history?

[SnottGrass]

So DS is setting off for Berlin tomorrow morning. Last year, he went to Frankfurt and I got him a disposable camera. When I got it developed a week later, it was full of pictures of converse boots in circles, giant burgers, random people walking down the street and "hostel shenanigans" (think teen 6 lads sharing a room!).

So today I bought him another disposable camera and gave him a list of stuff I thought he should aim to 'picture' - stuff he may want to look back on once he's past the age of thinking a circle of converse trainers is "art".

On my list was Brandenburg Gate, the outside of the hostel, the tv tower, checkpoint charlie and then I stopped and asked "is the podium still there where Hitler used to do the speeches? that would be a good one to get".

Well by DH's face you would have thought I'd said "whilst you're there son, make sure you frogmarch through the city centre with a swastika in one hand and your other arm outstretched". DH snapped at me "why on earth do you want him taking pictures of that!! it's sounding like you support the guy!!" ??? really?? isn't Hitler a piece of history, despite what a c*nt he was??

AIBU?

i personally wouldnt give a list of pictures to take but i may offer surgestions.
yanbu to think that all history is important

I think you're out of luck on the podium front - I think the famous one was in Nuremberg

So killing 6 million Jews didn't change the world?

I'll tell my ancestors that...oh wait...

Checkpoint Charlie was not a Nazi place. It was an Allied/German border beween East and West Germany. How little you all know about it. But ... correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm old enough to know. I remember.............. I will not bore you.

Tee :(

How little we all know about it?

I felt uncomfortable with my dcs wanting to have their photo taken next to Hitler's statue at Madame Tussaurds earlier this year. I'm not sure why as logically it's not supporting him or what he did, but it felt odd to me.

I agree with you a little, he should be known in order to prevent repetitions and alert people to similarities in leadership.

and, what type of ''Hostel Shenanigans'' do you mean out of interest?

And yet all you writing that history must not be forgotten have failed to mention the 20 million Russians who died which puts the 6 milion jews into a bit of perspective or the fact that our little island stood alone for more than a year with our empire in India and Pakistan coming to our aid whilst the Americans debated which side to come out in favour of until the Japanese forced their hand as Hitler had already sided with Japan.

Novack - IIRC the 20 million Russians were 'Soviet Citizens' - that includes people from the Ukraine & Belarus - i think also the 3 Baltic states - Lithuania, Latvia & Estonia.

Ukraine & Belarus were part of the USSR prior to WW2; the Baltic states were absorbed into the USSR straight after the war - so the deaths in those 5 countries were not counted separately from the Russian deaths.

(Don't quote me on that though - i will check that is correct).

The 20 million Soviet citizens who died included Red Army POWs.
Many of those 20 million were actually Jews & Roma.
The 6 - 8 million Jews who died in the Holocaust were civillians murdered in cold blood. No-one knows for sure how many because in many places whole populations of Jews were destroyed; along with records.

No-one knows how many Roma civilians were murdered in the Holocaust either as even the Roma themselves did not know how many Roma lived in Europe pre-war.

(In fact at least 11 million Jewish murders were planned but didn't happen as Britain & the area around Palestine were not invaded; & only part of the USSR was conquered. We mainly owe this to bravery of the RAF in defending Britain; & to the arrival of the Russian Winter which halted the German advance Eastwards).

Everyone will have various views on the above subject but the fact is that yes, Hitler will always be an important figure in history.

Ask me to name others & the names that come to mind include: Stalin, Lenin, Churchill, Elizabeth I, Henry VIII & his 6 wives, Gandhi, Queen Victoria, Chairman Mao, Oliver Cromwell, William the Conqueror, Julius Caesar, Shakespeare, Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, Florence Nightingale etc etc etc...
Basically a long long list of people throughout the centuries... :)

A good (hopefully impartial) source is 'World War II Deaths in the Soviet Union' on Wikipedia - there it states that the in excess of 20 million deaths include military & civillian; not just from Russia & the 5 other countries i mentioned but from a variety of countries in the old Soviet Union.
Those deaths will have included Jews & Roma.
Until the 1980s or even 1990s in some places - the memorials at the sites of old extermination & concentration camps or mass graves often just mentioned 'Victims of Facism' but the authorities refused to mention the Jews.
This is because of the anti-semitism that existed (& still exists) in Russia & Eastern Europe.
Vassily Grossman is just one WW2 war journalist who travelled with the Red Army as they retreated then advanced; but was not allowed to publish the truth in the USSR that many of the 'Victims of Facism' were Jews.
His work is very interesting as not only does it discuss the atrocities at Berdichev, Odessa & Treblinka (very distressing to read actually) but also gives the rarely heard views & stories of the men & young women soldiers of the Red Army.

It is important to study him, and Stalin. A lot of people supported them and unless you understand how and why that happened, it could al happen again.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

You are still using film?

I never take pictures of historical things, there are always post cards of them, I buy those and put them in albums along side my own pictures, tickets, boarding cards etcc.

This is true.
And i don't need to check on Wikipedia.
Postcards are always best for pictures of monuments etc.