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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be skeptical about this vaccination?

40 replies

slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 20:52

Our family has previous history of damage caused by the whooping cough vaccine. SIL is permanently brain damaged after recieving the vaccine, and DH had an extremely bad reaction, even though he received a different type of the vaccine due to his sisters reaction.

I spoke several times to the vaccine nurse about this, so I don't want to give DS the whooping cough vaccine. She kept trying to convince me, but I said I really wasn't happy. After months of tooing and froing, we got a letter from the hospital saying the vaccine has changed since the 80's, and it'll be fine to jab DS. I said would they do it in the local hospital, where they could at least monitor DS for a few hours? They said a flat no.

Last time I went to get DS a different vaccine, the same nurse at the surgery asked if I'd decided to vaccinate DS against whooping cough, since it is also combined with tetanus? I said I still wasn't happy. She tutted at me, and I asked if she could give him a single tetanus vaccine. She said no, and I should just give DS the DPT because it'll be fine.

My gut is really against this, but her attitude makes me feel like an awful mother and I dread appointments.

The nurse initially said there was a link between bad reactions to the vaccine and an egg allergy. After he was weaned, we tried him on scrambled egg and he had an immediate reaction; vomiting violently and rash around his mouth etc. When I told the same nurse this at another appointment, she then retracted her statement and said there was no link. This makes me even more wary.

I honestly feel like its just a 'bums on seats' approach at this surgery, and I'm really unhappy about it but I don't know what else to do.

OP posts:
manicbmc · 05/07/2012 20:54

I am absolutely all for immunisations but it really sounds like you have cause to question what you have been told.

Could you ask for a referral to an allergy clinic? They may be more sympathetic and knowledgeable.

MousyMouse · 05/07/2012 20:59

yanbu to keep yourself informed and make an informed decision.

the common childhood vaccines are very safe and effective, but ultimately it's up to you.

Original poster
slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 21:00

Because of this, I've now worked myself up and I'm terrified of giving the MMR because I feel like if there was a risk, they wouldn't tell me, they just want to vaccinate him and to hell with the consequences.

OP posts:
AMumInScotland · 05/07/2012 21:01

YANBU to be sceptical - it sounds like they are just giving their stock "don't worry dear" answer and have less knowledge about the possible allergic reactions than you do yourself. Not reassuring!

Not sure what you can do specifically, but you are right not to let them push you. Normally I'm in favour of vaccination, but you know your family history so it's not a "standard" situation at all.

Sidge · 05/07/2012 21:02

The pertussis component of the current 5-in-1 vaccine bears no resemblance to the pertussis vaccine that was used many years ago.

Giving vaccines in hospital is usually only done where there is a high risk of anaphylaxis, which isn't the case here.

Single tetanus vaccine isn't available in the UK. There is a combined diphtheria/tetanus/polio vaccine but it isn't recommended for under 10s as it doesn't contain enough diphtheria for young children.

Regarding egg, there is a small risk of the MMR causing a reaction when given to children who have an anaphylactic reaction to egg because it's manufactured with an egg-type protein. The vaccine may then be given in hospital. However any other non-anaphylactic reaction to egg or egg containing foods isn't a contraindication for vaccination in the surgery.

Original poster
slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 21:03

Yes, I am totally in favour of vaccinations.

I think tbh that if he hits 2, and this hasn't been sorted then we will end up doing it privately just to get the single vaccines.

OP posts:
edwinbear · 05/07/2012 21:04

Why don't you make an appointment to see the GP to discuss this, rather than a nurse? When the receptionist asks what you want to discuss with the doctor just say it's personal, or allergies so they don't try and fob you off with the nurse. I am also very pro vaccinations but with your family history it sounds like you need some proper medical advice.

saintlyjimjams · 05/07/2012 21:05

No I wouldn't just go ahead and vaccinate in your situation - not without a lot more reassurance.

It's a pain in the arse that you can't get tetanus separately (I won't give whooping cough either - for various reasons) but you learn to live with it.

Or you could talk to Richard Halvorsen - it costs, but he is very reliable, can get in all sorts of different combinations, and gives different advice to different people (in other words he individualises his advice).

Or ask for a referral a specialist immunologist. I know a few people who have taken that route - (and generally they have been advised not to vaccinate, even when GP's have said its fine - actually think that happened to a mnetter - if you search you may find something in the archives).

cureall · 05/07/2012 21:09

Do more research and don't submit to it until you are happy.

A court case was heard in Italy recently in which the parent's complaint, that their 9 mo DS's autism had been caused by the MMR jab, was upheld - the specialist independent doctor consulted said that, in the absence of any preexisting conditions, it could be reasonably assumed to have been caused by the jab.

Unsurprisingly this didn't make BBC headlines. Here is a link about it tho
www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/blogs/italian-court-reignites-contentious-autism-vaccine-debate

I agree vaccines are overall a good thing and have doubtless improved the health of the human race no end but I don't think they are risk free.

Original poster
slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 21:10

Thankyou mousy.

Saintly, I will look into that, Thankyou. I do feel like I'm being pressured a little into just 'doing it'.

I would never forgive myself if I gave it and he had a reaction.

I'm so nervous now with vaccines, I feel like I can't ask questions because they'll think I'm overreacting. I know he's due a couple now.

OP posts:
Sidge · 05/07/2012 21:11

Mousy that vaccine isn't given in the UK.

We give Pediacel.

Original poster
slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 21:11

My MIL has told me that if she had her time again, she'd still vaccinate; she'd just spread them out more, rather than cramming them all into such a short timeframe.

OP posts:
Original poster
slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 21:12

Sidge Thankyou I will google that.

OP posts:
Sidge · 05/07/2012 21:18

I can understand your concerns and am sorry that the nurses at your surgery don't fill you with confidence. However I would be surprised if you find a GP that is very clued up on childhood imms and the schedule. They don't do the imms, don't do the updates and generally refer all vaccination queries to their practice nurses!

If you want some more information about child imms then look on the Health Protection Agency website, or Google the Green Book for Immunisations.

MousyMouse · 05/07/2012 21:18

I know, but the product information is pretty similar

Sidge · 05/07/2012 21:20

Except for our 5-in-1 contains Hib and not Hep B.

trixymalixy · 05/07/2012 21:20

There's no reason that you have to follow their schedule of vaccinations.My kids are both fully up to date with their vaccinations, but I vaccinated them to my own schedule, spreading them out. I got a bit of hassle from my surgery, the health visitor kept coming round to visit and phoning.

Both my kids have severe allergies including to egg and I ended up leaving the MMR until they were both about 2.5 for several reasons. I thought their bodies would deal with being injected with something they are potentially allergic to when they were a bit older. I wanted to leave until they were over two as that's when the vaccine damage compensation scheme starts although it would have been small comfort, at least it would have been something.

They had it dine in hospital in the end and they were both fine.

MousyMouse · 05/07/2012 21:21

package leaflet pediacel

Original poster
slatternlymother · 05/07/2012 21:23

Trixy how old are your children now? I think I will also leave MMR until after 2 because of the egg allergy and I am worried.

OP posts:
numbertaker · 05/07/2012 21:26

no YANBU.

The W/C vaccine is proved to be a fairly crap vaccine, it has very low efficacy rates, Dr Halvorson a GP who runs a jabs clinic has said in his book that he was talked into giving his son the vaccine, but after futher research he wished he had not.

There is a W/C epidemic at the moment, lots in Aus and US. They are finding that the vaccine is not working very well as they believe that the bacteria has mutated, and therefore not covered by the current vaccine.

The reason we have DTaP is because they had to weaken the Pertussis(whooping cough parts) because of to many advers reactions.

Most of the major cases for brain damage caused by DTP or DTaP are from 'hot lots', where a batch of vaccines are not checked properly and get out of the factory and are therefor 'hot'.

some recent info about WC vaccine

here

here

Not an easy one.

numbertaker · 05/07/2012 21:32

Oh and I was fully vaccinated, still got WC and I did not get a mild version either.

trixymalixy · 05/07/2012 21:44

They are 5.5 and nearly 3. DD(3) only had her MMR in March.

I did a huge amount of reading about the MMR and the allergy/ autism factors and didn't really come to any satisfactory conclusions as everything I read seemed to be biased in some way. My mind was made up after DS had a serious asthma attack and I felt that if he did contract measles etc then it was far riskier for him than for healthy children and the small risk of vaccine damage/ reaction was the lesser risk to face. Thankfully he was fine.

Bigwheel · 05/07/2012 21:57

Follow your gut. You need to get your child's egg allergy officially tested in the hospitial. Once confirmed you can get the mmr done ( if you decide to) in the hospitial where they can observed him. It's your right to refuse or delay any vaccination, there's no right or wrong answer, only one that feels 'most right' to you.

hugglymugly · 05/07/2012 22:31

I do feel for you slatternlymother because I had similar concerns back in the late 1970s. Not quite the same, as there was no history of adverse reactions in the family. But there were a lot of concerns at that time about the WC vaccine that was available then, at a time when there was an increase of WC and there was a lot of government pressure on parents to increase the uptake.

One of the anecdotes I read back then (remember that the internet wasn't around very much at that time so information wasn't easy to find) was exactly what numbertaker says: that some vaccinated children did get the disease, and some of them quite badly.

I think trixymalixy puts it well: it has to be an individual decision based on what you know about your particular child and his/her individual and family history. As that's often complicated, it's probably easier for the HCPs to go with the "one size fits all", which unfortunately it doesn't always.

I think that too often "gut instinct" gets seen by some HCPs as "over-emotional", where it really needs to be read as "justified concerns".