to think charities should not feed children

[moogster1a]

Listening to a discussion on radio 5 about how so many children go hungry because their parents cannot afford to feed them or their lives are so chaotic they just don't think to feed them.
benefit money is enough to feed a family. If the parents lives are so cocked up that they have better priorities than feeding their own children, then the children should not be with them.
I don't understand why if the charities concerned know the children are basically starving, then why SS aren't taking the children in hand.
I understand some people have MH issues, but again, should they really be in charge of their children's basic requirements if they can't meet them?
The discussion has mentioned a few times how some parents have drug and or alcohol issues. In that case, either get straightened out and spend that money on food, or the children go into care.

Couthy, the school shouldn't be charging you for MyMaths. If they choose to use it, it should come out of the schools budget. FWIW, I think MyMaths is brilliant, but then my dc get traditional homework as well as MM stuff.

FGS, Katherine, did you not read my post? The woman was a victim of sustained domestic violence! Aside from the black eyes, he raped her. The CSA is where she needs to go if she wants him coming round and doing it again, sure. I'm glad everything's so cut and dried and nice in your little world but in the real one things are different, it's just not that easy, ok?

And it doesn't matter if a loan is interest free or not, you still have to pay the actual loan out of SFA and a shirt button!!!!!

Now I've thoroughly lost patience I really am leaving for work and hiding this thread so that when I come back I don't have to read any more bollocks.

Graham - has she tried looking for some things on places like Gumtree or Freecycle? She might be able to get things like a kettle, cleaning products, some toiletries, oven etc? They will most likely be second hand but if she is desperate it is worth looking.

Freddos I think the money issue with MyMaths is more along the lines of paying for the computer to be able to access it perhaps? Not gotten to that point in education yet. Homework over the internet is something I have yet to experience.

Graham...., I was in a hostel for a year with dc fleeing dv.... Got an ex who sounds similar.... And on benefits. There are ways to juggle it all. Sounds like she needs some lessons

If you have debt, like mortgage payments, a car loan, or credit cards and you can't afford to feed your children, then you declare bankruptcy.

That's not always necessary tbh. For people in that situation, their credit rating has been shafted anyway, so they're not going to hurt themselves any more by writing to their credit card companies and telling them they're only going to pay off £5 a month and they can like it or lump if - if £5 is really the maximum they can afford. Don't do this to whoever holds your mortgage though.

Loads of people don't know they can do this, they think that if they don't pay the amount demanded then they'll end up in court and have various other fines added on to the debt.

Oh, I read it as Couthy had to pay the school for it because she said her Uncle pays for Internet access.

Computer based homework seems to increase dramatically when they get to secondary!

Are you against charities like Mary's meals or just giving people food in the UK.

I think that free school dinners or even breakfast clubs are a great way to make sure that benefits go directly to the children. It is a relatively cheap way of boosting school attendence, reducing lateness and supporting the child. I feel that more children should be entitled to free or heavily subsidisd school dinners and breakfast clubs.

The costs of taking a child into care are astronomical. Surely its better to feed the children of a parent who is incapable of managing a tight budget or getting a job. I also worry about the parent as well. I don't want anyone to be hungry or freeze because they are hopeless at budgeting.

Prehaps we should open up school canteens so that struggling families, the elderly etc. can get a hot meal at the weekend and holidays. Prehaps we need to think how to keep vunerable warm and fed in winter as well. I think this is an area where charities could help.

Almost two years ago my family were on benefits because dh lost his job and I only had a part time job. It was quite a tough and stressful time. It is horrible to have to tell your nine year old that he can't have a birthday party because we need to pay the electric. I can understand why a mother might decide to give her children stuff she can't afford and then be in financial trouble.

mooshaboom why are social services not paying you a fostercare allowance for the young people you are caring for?

They should be.

I do have one friend who gets just £17 a week IS.

Her employed partner left. She contacted TC's, as she had no access to their TC's that were paid into his acc as she had no ID to open a bank acc. It took them 8 weeks to stop paying the CTC into his acc, and to start paying her by Giro. During those 6 weeks, she had to get 'hardship payments' of £50 a week from HMRC. She is now paying THOSE back at £10 a week from her CTC.

It took them 7 weeks to get her IS claim processed. In that time, she had 7 weeks worth of money paid as crisis loans.

She had to move out of the Private Rented house she was in as her LL refused to accept a Tenant on HB. (Her bastard Ex moved his bit of fluff in there the same day, he can pay as he works!)

She is currently in B&B. Her rent is £300 a week, for a single room for her and her 3 DC. As she is only entitled to 2-bed Social housing (3 boys), the council will only pay £595 pcm LHA, leaving a shortfall of £705 pcm. So every month she is in temp accommodation, she is trying to find MORE money on her top-up than she has COMING IN. She's already been in there for 3 months, and the council have told her even in band A, there is a 1 yr wait for 2-bed Social housing, in the area she HAS to stay due to a PSO handed out by the most mysoginistic judge ever that delights in ruining many a local mother's life by tying them to ONE ESTATE so their darling daddies can pick them up from school without having to pay bus fares or petrol money.

In the B&B, she cannot be in from 10am till 5pm, so out all day. Has no cooking facilities, and breakfast ISN'T provided (so B&B for temp accommodation is a bit of a misnomer, tbh). She has to pay to sit in soft play with her DC when all her friends are out, and it's raining. She has to pay for lunches outside as there is no food storage facilties.

She has to pay for her DC's bus fares to school, as the B&B is 2.9 miles from the school as the crow flies. Though by bus route it is closer to 6 miles, and charged as such.

You tell her how she is meant to cover the rent top-up from her benefits, and still feed her DC's and pay to get them to school when the top-up is MORE THAN SHE GETS IN BENEFITS. She chose NONE of this!

Freddos I get my internet access queried every time I admit to struggling on benefits, people don't seem to deem it as necessary and as a frivolous spend, I guess the stress of realising you need it and having to accept subbed payments of it is enough when you are already struggling your butt off to pay for everything, not to mention the fact that you are relying on the continued goodwill and good financial situation of the person subbing it to have it continue. Not all the stress is from not having the money to pay, but from all the perceived issues around that too. What people think of you, whether help will continue long term, where you draw priority lines week on week, dealing with phone calls from unsympathetic companies and debt collection agencies etc etc.

YANBU to raise the problem of 'neglect'. Neglect is quite a different thing to poverty and is not confined to any one area. Many families that are in the category of poor would rather go hungry themselves than let their children starve. However, even though it's not solving the fundamental neglect, feeding the children keeps them going on at least a basic level. Also, if children are coming forward for food, they may be identified by SS as a) existing and b) being at risk. Quite a lot of children who are that badly neglected never make it onto the radar otherwise... don't get enrolled for school or medical care etc. They don't exist.

Can i also just say that SW do go through budgeting with parents and extra help, including food vouchers are not given to families that have bought kitkats instead of fruit.

These are families with genuine problems. Food vouchers or crisis payments (SS not DWP) can be used. I would rather give a family a one off payment of £50 than pay £400 for foster care to be found, with an additional cost of around £400. Why does that not make sense to people?

Poverty just isn't something that some posters don't get.

Relative poverty destroys self esteem and parents just try to still give ther children the school trips etc that their peers have.

Wtf this is so resented by some, is beyond me, tbh.

I opened this in the faint hope that the op might be along the lines of: charities should not feed children....because the benefits system and the state should look after them and take away the need for a charity to do it.

But alas no. Just another whinge about poor people

The Radio 4 interview on "Today" with "Angela" the mother who was hospitalised for malnourishment (because she gave all she could afford to her daughter) and referred to a food charity was very good. As was Siobhan thingy of NetMums who have launched a campaign.

OP - you'll be able to listen to it on iPlayer if you'd like (ever hopeful of winning people back from "The Dark Side" )

ReallyTired - good post.

As an absolute starting point free school meals should be available to all children who are suffering poverty and not just if the parent/s aren't working.

Internet access is one of those things that should be given free or subsidised for people who have school aged children living at home. In thise circumstances, it's essential, not a luxury. Not dissimilar to free tv licences for the over 75s.

In many cases, it can be a luxury, even though some deals are cheaper online.

Thing is, Chb 4-weekly DOES help with bigger purchases such as shoes etc. Getting it weekly doesn't mean you get MORE, does it! It's just that it doesn't cover the basics any more. Unless you are feeding your DC nothing but junk food and no fruit and veg, anyway.

I'm not posting for handouts, at all, I am just posting to try to explain HOW some parents on benefits can be perfectly decent parents, even ones that sit and read with and to their DC's, that go without everything to feed their dc's etc - and STILL can need help from food banks.

I am trying my damn best, but in September when the bus fares go up,I might as well give up, because in order to feed MY DC's a nutritious diet THAT WON'T KILL THEM OR LAND THEM IN HOSPITAL, I will HAVE no choice but to rely on food banks for some of it, or decide to just NOT send my DC's to school...

It is going to come down to a food or education choice, as I can't physically get them to the school without paying bus fares. Hobson's choice, eh? Get your DC's taken away for not feeding them properly, or get them taken away for not going to school every day, only when you can afford the bus fares?

Have you opened your home to a child requiring care through social services? I have and I've seen the heartbreak of a broken home. It's not that simple.

What irritates me about your post is that I strongly suspect you have done nothing to earn yourself a voice in this debate. Until you have volunteered with one of these charities, been part of a foster family, worked for social services etc....you know nothing. And the callous tone of your post confirms that you know nothing.

Fatima Witbred has just been on the This Morning show a couple of minutes ago, talking about kids in care.

She said A child goes into care and needs a foster family every 22 minutes across the UK

And they're running out of Foster carers and care home spaces

A foster care allowance generally starts off at around £365 a week. Then there is usually three times a week contact, this can cost up to £100 per day for the use of a room in a Children's Centre etc. There is the associated court costs, childen are usually removed on an interim care order.

On top of this there are other expenses, transport etc, foster carers cannot always bring the children, or there are other children. There are the required medical appointments for a looked after child.

Balanced against each othe crisis prevention costs are miniscule compared to foster care.

I would love to be a foster carer but I dont have a spare bedroom so that rules me out.

If they want more foster carers they might need to look at the rules and how tight they are.

Exactly Birds - for once we agree, on something to do with Social Work, £30 help with food a week, or £300+ a week for FC.

YES there ARE instances where DC SHOULD be removed from their birth families due to WILFUL NEGLECT, but in the case of situational neglect, prevention costs are MUCH lower than foster care costs, AND there will be much less emotional difficulties in the CHILD if kept with their birth family, and much less chance of them suffering from MH issues in the future.

vaga i know you want to foster but you really do need an extra room imo for numerous reasons,

I have to say birds has it spot on some people dont 'get' poverty it isnt about budgeting it goes much further than buying a tesco value loaf

"If they want more foster carers they might need to look at the rules and how tight they are."

Still don't you think its right the rules are tight. In the past there have been cases where children have suffered worse abuse in foster care than they did with natural parents.