To wonder why on earth you would not vaccinate your DCs?

[olimpia]

I hear from another thread that some people choose not to vaccinate their DCs at all and I'm genuinely interested to hear why because I can't think of a single reason not to. I can perhaps understand opting out of the MMR if someone believes the bad press (not that I do) but all the other vaccinations? Why, oh why?
(not a troll! Just relatively new to MN)

Yes I would have liked my children of both sexes to have had measles and mumps, I'm pretty sure they've had rubella nad they have definiltely had chicken pox. I get annoyed about the mumps thing as I think it's positively beneficial in childhood. They've had infant vaccinations but they didn't get boosters or anything extra when we went to south Asia for a holiday, they didn't have MMr, in fact I've come to the view that when people go on hols to India and say oh we were ill when we arrived, half of it must be down to the immune trauma they've just been through. We weren't ill at all.

Why do you think mumps is beneficial Accuracy? Is it so that you can get natural immunity or some other reason? I am genuinely curious.

By the way hands up if you believe India is "polio free", I don't think so. That's just complete PR.

I think mumps is beneficial because it has a cancer protective effect in girls, while in boys it gives immunity at a time when it's not that dangerous or as painful as in adolescents and adults. I don't like the fact that my nearly adult son hasn't had it, and that he'll soon be surrounded by teenagers whose immunity is wearing off and in close contact all ripe for a local epidemic or outreak. Better to get it out of the way young, that seems more normal to me.

That's interesting Accuracy and not something I had heard before. Does it have a cancer protective effect in boys too, or is that not known?

Are they claiming that it's polio free? A couple of months ago there were a few articles about there being a rise in paralytic polio cases due to the use of the oral polio vaccine (live).

Mumps and ovarian cancer

I'm not sure about that Volcan. I knew about the cancer link with girlssome tme ago and somebody on this thread has linked to the study. It was found many years ago now (the protective effect I mean) rather like the measles-asthma protective effect.

bubmley, yes they had a big Ta DA! a whole year without a single case of polio. They sort of ignored the fact that while polio has gone down from 50 thousand to zerio since 1999 the cases of "non-specific" acute flaccid paralysis have gone up to ...about 49 thousdand.

I didn't know see those articles and can you let me know where? Don't worry about a link, if you know the journal or paper I will google myself.

oh there we are bumbley has got her running shoes on I am left in the dust

I didn't know about the measles/ asthma connection either although I do know anecdotally that asthma cases have rocketed. This could be due to other factors such as environmental pollutants though.

here's one I can't remember where I read it originally though.

there was a WHO study carried out in Africa, it found that more measles = less asthma (basically, obviously that's not a very good summation but that was about the size of it it). I can't link to it I'm sorry.

Apparently cases caused by the vaccine don't count so India is still technically 'polio free'. I wonder how the parents of the children who have been paralysed feel about that?

some them are vaccinated six, seven, eight times with opv, then any link is denied, it's criminal

Yes the India thing is odd isn't it? I did see somewhere this week a doctor in India pointing out that ti this affected it didn't make much difference whether it was wild type or vaccine type polio.

We should have a mumps party. :) I'd forgotten about the ovarian cancer thing & mumps.

And while we're at it - does anyone know what happened to the mutated measles virus in India? There was a bunch of publications in the early 2000's then nothing. Did it disappear? Was it found to be something else?

Accuracy I know myself that on the few occasions I have had a severe cold and I treat it with decoctions of orange juice and honey, rest and hot baths, I often feel significantly better afterwards than I did in the couple of months before. It's as though I have burnt the poison out of my system. That's an instinctive feeling (I was going to say gut feeling but thought better of it) and no doubt someone will be along shortly to tell me that I am a fool, but I could well believe that measles could protect against asthma in a similar way.

In sub-Saharan Africa/ South East Asia I firmly believe that clean drinking water and good sanitation would promote health more.

Yes, it's odd and it's a lie, it has more to do with India's rise and the great drive to improve India's image as a first world economy. I fyou know anything about health coverage in India, sanitary conditions, oversight of medical rcords, testing, local and petty corruption, the power of local officals, you know this is a lie.

la volcan, i agree with you, in fact I have spoken to a major corporate vaccine promoter about it and he agrees with us too! (according to him 60 per cent reduction in mobidity-mortality)(doesn't stop him doing what he does of course)

And rubella parties, as long as you made sure that you didn't invite anyone who was possibly in the early stages of pregnancy.

I have been to India and I can absolutely believe all that Accuracy.

I think for me lavolcan and accuracy have summed up very well the philosophy behind the anti vaccination movement. It's not about evidence, it's about feelings and conjecture.

So, Lavolcan and accuracy go to India unvaccinated, don't get sick and say 'Aha, people who are immunized have had their immune systems 'assaulted', that's why they get sick when they go to India!'. But I've been to India and i was vaccinated and I was absolutely fine. You have absolutely no scientific evidence of any 'assault on the immune system' leading to illness in India.

And the best one is the 'I feel better after having a severe cold as I have burnt the poison out so therefore it makes sense that measles could protect against asthma'. Again, there is no evidence for this!!! It's just your 'feeling'. You want to protect against asthma and allergies - get a pet! There's strong scientific evidence that getting a pet is protective.

, I know that when I make my decisions, I like to look at the scientific evidence, that's what I weight highly. The vast majority of people who choose not to vaccinate clearly weight the evidence presented by their own experiences and feelings highly. That's a key difference.

You missed the bit where I said that I keep up to date with the latest peer reviewed research (despite problems with peer review)/have been to conferences and spoken to researchers then?

i think you have misunderstood what was being said about India. We were talking about this: digitaljournal.com/article/323371 and previously this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119899/

It is a key difference. What I struggle with is the fact that I am unable to make the properly informed scientifically weighted decisions you mention, because of the lack of research, the lack of data gathered, the unreported side affects.
If I felt that medical and governments had taken note and responded to these issues appropriately, I wouldn't have cause to doubt them.

ElaineBenes Please trouble yourself to read my early posts:

a) please point out where I say that I am anti-vaccine
b) please read same posts to see why I said I had vaccinations and then tell me how you can substantiate your comment that I (and Accuracy) go to India unvaccinated? ( I can't speak for Accuracy, hence the brackets)
c) you have twisted my words what I actually said was not 'therefore it makes sense that measles could protect against asthma' but that I could well believe that measles could protect against asthma in a similar way. You are at perfect liberty to disagree with me without twisting my words to imply I have said something I have not said. However, others have weighed the evidence and come to different conclusions to yourself.
d) I too like to look at scientific evidence so you are setting up a straw man on the assumption that I am anti -vaccine. I do question some of the current policies - most noticeably I have questioned why babies need to be given rubella vaccines when it confers no benefit to them, and have yet to see a convincing explanation. I caught rubella in my teens, and my daughter had the vaccine at junior school, just for information.

As it happens, I do have a pet and don't have allergies.... but what relevance is that?