Thanks for the update on the new names of these workfair type JSA programmes from carernotasaint
New name being "Work Programme - "not workfare. Its mandatory voluntary activity. FFS how the hell can it be both mandatory and voluntary"
Well, yes I agree how can it be mandatory voluntary activity, but they love this kind of jargon at the Jobcentre don't they. What I have found is that most of the people who work at the Jobcentre are clueless about the law & think they can speak to claimants any which way they like & treat them like s**t, WRONG! They also have big chips on their shoulders which is great news for anyone signing on simply because the Jobcentre staff take things very personally which means they make mistakes all the time. They try and apply benefits rules without sticking strictly to the law, then if you appeal against sanctions etc you will win on a point of law.
When I was signing on I had numerous run ins with the staff at the Jobcentres. I had sanctions overturned & decisions made by decision makers reversed simply by looking up the law & appealing to the independent tribunal. I did not lose one case. These tribunals usually are very informal & the judges at these tribunals look at the law covering any sanction made by Jobcentre staff or Decision Maker. They are independent and fair.
ilovesooty "I have a client who was sent on mandatory work activity after less than a month of claiming. When he asked why this had happened so quickly as he'd already referred himself to the National Careers Service he was told to shut up or be removed by security."
and carernotasaint
"Someone tweeted Boycott Workfare yesterday or the day before to say that they have been mandated to workfare after signing on for TWO MONTHS".
The thing to remember is that there are laws governing all aspects of benefits & claiming benefits. Benefits Advisors in Jobcentres are not allowed by law to speak to claimants like that & if it had happened to me there would have been a serious complaint made in writing, followed up with the current law regarding treatment of claimants & then a demand for an apology from the benefits advisor & Jobcentre manager. If Security had thrown me out there would have been a further complaint made with the addition of an potential assault charge if they had touched me or forced me in any way.
I do not know if it is legal for the Jobcentre to send someone on mandatory work activity after one or two Months of claiming under this new scheme, I don't think so. The only time I think this can happen is if that person was previously sanctioned before signing off or at a particular stage of the Gateway in the old New Deal before signing off, then it may possible that the Jobcentre may start a new claim at the gateway stage they were previously at. I would have to look the law up to be sure. (So make sure you sign off before any mandatory activity is sanctioned), but as always they will try & get away with it if they think they can and if you go along with it & sign for anything then it converts from voluntary to mandatory. Although this is a new scheme called Work Programme instead of the old New Deal or Workfair often the underlying laws that govern these schemes remain the same, in which case it should not be possible to force someone on to it in one or two Months, unless as above they have been tricked into signing up or previously been sanctioned or reached a mandatory gateway before signing off.
This is why you have to know the law about whatever scheme or benefit you are on, that way they can't scare you with threats or trick you into non mandatory schemes. The law is the law & if you ask them what scheme they are putting you on you can then go away & look up the law on that particular scheme. There is plenty of information on-line & also the best source of benefit law is from The Child Poverty Action Group Handbook which you used to be able to read in decent reference libraries or buy (if you can afford it), all benefits solicitors use this book as a reference & it covers everything about benefit laws. Obviously you need an up to date version with all these changes happening. The CPAG also have a website. Also do not be afraid to consult a solicitor about benefits problems, if you are on benefits you won't have to pay in most cases, but do find one that specialises in benefit law.
The government calls it 'encouraging' people to work, but in reality its a form of bullying."
Sallyingforth Seems an entirely reasonable policy to me.
The thing is Sally, Bullying in any shape or form is unacceptable & illegal. You seem to have the idea that all people on benefits are scroungers or are lazy and sitting around at home. This is the popular tabloid press view of people on benefits isn't it? Or the Daily Mail perhaps, but remember the papers are just out for sensational headlines to sell papers & it isn't a true reflection of most people on benefits. How do you think forcing someone to pick up litter or clean graffiti for £72 pw or £2.40 per hour is helping in their legitimate jobsearch, let alone their own personal self esteem? It's totally demoralising & counterproductive and leads to resentment & often legitimate jobseekers who have not been able to find a job feel as if they are being punished like criminals on community service simply for being unemployed & in a job market where there are few jobs available to them.
I was on benefits for quite a while but I did not sit around at home, I used the time to try & find a way forward for myself, eventually taking evening classes then Summer schools at Uni & then an access course & then a full time Uni course where I obtained a degree in law. I could not have done this if I was bullied into working 30 hours a week picking up litter for £2.40 per hour! I would have lost all hope in anything better & probably turned to crime instead of the law. I know someone has to do the job of picking up litter in our society, but it should be their choice & those people should be paid a fair wage for doing it rather than relying on the out of work at slave labour pay rates.
So please don't judge people on benefits as scroungers, as I said in my earlier post 'some are', but most in my experience are not.
Thank you